Is a not so good kibble better than human?

[Rowan Liver Roan]

We've been trying to sort out Rowan's feeding as for some time she has refused all dog food (yes she would starve herself and be very miserable which neither of us wants). As a result of this she eats human food - a low fat tesco sausage for breakfast, maybe with some cubes of 100% beef steaklet and for dinner usually its chicken, carrots and broccoli all cooked as she hates raw meat. To vary a bit she sometimes has fillet steak with the veg.  our fault totally I know. We've never done this with any other dog we've had, kibble all the way and healthy active dogs right to very old age. Here's our dilemma.. We don't want to be depriving her of the varied diet needs kibble accounts for so are trying to get her back on proper dog food. Queue my interfering mother who bought Bakers after she's refused JWB, Burns, Royal Canine, Skinners. I know COLer's have said that's like McDonalds for dogs but the thing is the little Madame actually ate some of it     Now we don't know what to do for the best as we want to watch her weight (not a problem yet) as she's not a keen walker feeding could become important. Any advice welcome. Totally our fault we are in this dilemma I know.

[Mudmagnets]

Have you tried wet food at all, some dogs who don't like kibble will tolerate wet food instead. You can get wet cooked food - such as Nature diet, Wainwrights etc., so no probs with feeding raw meat.

[Nicola]

I would also try a good quality wet food like NatureDiet, Nature's Menu, Lily's Kitchen or Wainwrights trays but failing that you could keep feeding her a home-cooked diet, but a balanced, healthy one. I would stop feeding her the sausages straight away, even "low fat" sausages are still relatively very high in fat, especially for dogs, and eating this every day really won't be good for her - Bakers is full of rubbish but it's still specifically formulated for dogs to eat and contains the vitamins and minerals they require so in that sense is 'better' than a high-fat/unbalanced diet of human food but there are still much better alternatives.

There's quite a bit of information online about home-prepared diets for dogs such as this article on the Whole Dog Journal site: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_7/features/Home-Prepared-Dog-Food-Nutritional-Information_20568-1.html

[Patp]

Have you tried flash frying some meat? There are some meats that jinley prefers to be very quickly fried but still raw in the middle  the veg you are feeding probably isn't giving her any nutrition and she will be lacking some bone and you could always open a can of sardines or scramble an egg . As Mudmagnets has said try some wet food to see if she prefers that but I wouldn't start her on bakers.

[Rowan Liver Roan]

Nicola, thanks....that's a brilliant in depth link and at least if changing doesn't work she will have a far better home made diet. The link confirms our fears for wanting change too. Previously wet food was also refused but I think I'll try again with some of the recommended ones here. I don't want to go from the frying pan to the fire and make things worse with Bakers. Thanks for the advice so far.

[Lottielove]

A very interesting link as we basically have the same problem as you - Lottie won't eat dog food. I've taken to hiding a bit in every meal we give her but she picks the kibble out or doesn't eat it at all. Virtually the only wet food she will tolerate is Nature Diet chicken flavour, but only if it has added goodies in it like bits of chicken. She does love scrambled eggs and sometimes I can get some kibble down her mixed in with that, but other days, like today, that results in her rejecting the whole bowl. It's a bit of a challenge isn't it? She'd much prefer a bowl of pasta carbonara!

[Archie bean]

Archie was very VERY fussy young dog and kibble was an absolute no no. He was weaned on a kibble and wet mixed. The wet was Nature diet and he regularly sucked the wet off and spat the kibble back out, but after a while he refused even the wet food. I was trying to persevere with it but luckily, over his first Christmas, our local PAH ran out of the ND and I bought Wainwrights wet trays as it seemed similar. He LOVED it and still does. I was nervous about giving just wet but now I honestly wouldn't feed anything else. Especially since they now do a grain free version.
The one thing I would say is that all my previous dogs have gone through a phase of going off their food as they got to about 7/8 months old and all came through it eventually. The only pup in my family who never went through this phase is mums Jade. Mum gradually changed her onto Wainwrights wet as soon as she was settled in at 8 weeks.

[JennyBee]

I deeply feel your pain . I know just how determined the two of them are, and Brodie has certainly starved herself plenty of times over the years. Kibble is off the menu entirely, although no doubt she would gobble Bakers if I gave her the chance... Things improved with wet food, and she absolutely loved the Wainrights trays, first food I ever saw her run around in circles for .

I found she got bored easily, so my solution was to have the Wainrights as her 'main' food but ever couple of months swap for Lily's Kitchen or Lukullus, just to give her variety. It all worked perfectly (and took no extra effort) until the pancreatitis. That was brought on by sausages (and steroids), so I really would stop them if you can. Since then she has more normal eating habits, although she still goes through phases of fussiness. She can't handle any other food now though so she's stuck on NatureDiet!

Hope you find something that works, they can be so stubborn when they want to be, and I know how frustrating it is

[VeeBee]

Lily's Kitchen do a recipe book, dinner for dogs. Full of good ideas and tips. Gets four stars on Amazon.

[Rowan Liver Roan]

We're now going to go to PAH with her tomorrow and have a look at these wet food trays that everyone has mentioned. Money isn't an object (based on what I'm spending now on chicken fillets and fillet steaks),so I'll pick what looks appealing. She weighs 14kgs and is average framed, not a dainty one (a wee heifer to carry home when she stops walking tbh  ). I'll read the trays etc but what amount do you usually feed per day (currently on two feeds age 2 1/2) and is it like the old days of wet where they need mixers or are they complete? All my previous dogs have been complete kibble so excuse my ignorance.   

[Archie bean]

The Wainwrights trays are complete - no mixer required. Archie has quite a few treats so I feed him well below the recommended amount. At some point last year the amounts on the packaging for Wainwrights trays changed. Even though the ingredients etc were exactly the same the daily suggested amount was suddenly almost double what it had been before. I left Archie on what he was before with no ill effects - no suddenly starving dog! He has two thirds of a tray a day spilt between two meals. It looks really tiny but he's still a big boy and could handle losing weight if anything. He weighs just under 17kg. Mums Jade is a much tinier dog (11kg) but is far more energetic and runs around like a lunatic on her walks. She has a whole tray a day and is nice and trim! It's probably a question of finding something Rowan likes and then use the recommended amount as a guide and watch her weight to adjust accordingly.
As well as Wainwrights I also give Forthglade chicken or fish for a bit of extra variety. As far as I know they are made by the same manufacturer. I also keep fishmongers white fish and potato in the store cupboard as an emergency bland food if he ever has a dodgy tum. Good luck. I hope you find something that she likes.

[Rowan Liver Roan]

Thanks Emma, that's a really good point to remember with the treats. Like Archie, Rowan has a lot of treats as she is food responsive/motivated so I'll be guided with that. Quite excited now knowing other dogs were the same but did find a pleasurable but fulfilling alternative. Feeling optimistic now and she likes a wee trip to PAH as food is usually spilt on the floor, plenty kids around and she likes to go see the rabbits.  I always think Archie looks the perfect size and shape in photos (as well as being gorgeous), so he's a perfect example to follow. I'm especially heartened that even Auntie Brodie has found a solution 

[Mudmagnets]

I have one tip re Nature diet - I am feeding Naturediet puppy, it is a complete meal as are all the Adult ND trays, but do be careful how much you feed. I found with the puppy one, the recommended amount was much more than Minstrel could cope with - giving him sloppy poos.

Not sure if the Adult one's will be the same:

http://www.naturediet.co.uk/naturediet/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/ND_FACT_DetailedFeedingGuideforDogs.pdf

 

[JennyBee]

Brodie got three quarters of a tray of Wainrights, and is the same with the NatureDiet. The recommended amount for that is around one and a quarter, if I remember rightly. I find it easier to go by how she looks than go by recommendations, I cut back if she's looking a little porky, and add more when she's lost too much (not much chance of that happening ). Brodie is 12.5kg at the moment, she's just off steroids so needs to lose a little bit.

[Rowan Liver Roan]

  Rowan has just eaten the Wainrights wet food tray and licked the bowl  I can't actually believe it! Really hoping its not the novelty value, but she must have enjoyed it to do that! We plumped for a turkey light version 35% lighter, just as a safety net for weight just now in case the change dramatically affects her weight but we can monitor and see. I bought a fishmongers white fish and potato as a back up/change etc. looking at the size of the trays I can see what everybody means about the recommended amount - 1 to 1 1/2 per day. Rowan will start around the 2/3 or 3/4 split between 2 feeds and treats will fill the gaps. Oh I really hope this agrees with her and she keeps it up. I had let her sniff it in the tray and she actually whined and pawed my leg the whole time I was chopping it up!  don't know who is more excited - me or her