Switching to raw - what bones to start off with?

[BeeBoo]

Hello hello!

So I understand chicken wings is a good starting point, but what other types of bone would be good in the first couple of weeks? Trial and error?

Many thanks!

[Patp]

Hi,

Nice to hear from you again Melissa!

I feed Jinley raw, but the only bones she has are chicken wings (one for breakfast) or poussin if they are on offer in the supermarket but I then reduce her evening meal as they have more meat on them.

She buries everything else, but I do now that others feed lamb rib bones.

Jinleys poos are just right with a daily chicken wing and fingers crossed, all okay with anal glands.  Any more bone and she gets a bit constipated.

If you are feeding a chicken wing, make sure the other meal is just meat with no ground bone in it.

I usually work on 1 chicken wing and about 300g meat per day ( a mixture of offal, fish, muscle meat) and I try to get a variety in over a monthly period rather than over a week which prevents waste and I buy most of it from the supermarket.

If you are worried about giving the chicken wing, especially if Buckley inhales his food, I used to bash it with a rolling pin first.

Pat

[BeeBoo]

Hello Pat & Jinley
Hope you are both very well!

I usually work on 1 chicken wing and about 300g meat per day ( a mixture of offal, fish, muscle meat) and I try to get a variety in over a monthly period rather than over a week which prevents waste and I buy most of it from the supermarket.

If you are worried about giving the chicken wing, especially if Buckley inhales his food, I used to bash it with a rolling pin first.

Pat

Many thanks for your reply - first time we tried raw he ate the bone properly, no issues but I believe I made a booboo with drumsticks (don't worry, this was last summer!). He eats meat nicely and doesn't gulp, so not concerned but did whack the drumsticks he ate last time just incase! Will do so with the wings, just incase!

How about lamb necks? Does the size of bone depend on size of dog (as opposed to breed)? He's 16kg?

xx

[Juno]

My dog's had lamb neck before - a good sized chunk provides a good workout.  Just supervise as it gets small and swap with him if you're worried.  Pork and lamb ribs should be fine as they too are relatively soft.  I prefer to feed a couple joined together as although mine's a fairly careful chewer she is greedy.  Lamb ribs can be quite fatty and some find them a little rich - trial and error as you say.  If you're buying from the supermarket they should have a good bit of meat on them, too - Morrisons is good.  For bones I also feed portioned rabbit and pheasant seasonally.

[elaine.e]

If you're on Facebook Melissa can I suggest you join one of the raw feeding groups? Raw Feeding UK and A.R.S.E (A Raw Start Explained) are both very helpful and have start up guides.

Most people start off with 1 protein source, typically chicken, and a limited amount of bone. If Buckley is normally fed kibble his stomach acid will need a bit of time to adjust to raw (it will naturally become more acidic) and bone is more difficult to digest than meaty chunks or mince.

William is a bone gulper, so most of the bone in his diet is in the form of minces containing bone, plus the occasional chicken wing with me firmly holding one end to make sure he crunches it up. Louis doesn't gulp and has chicken wings, backs and carcasses, rabbit quarters, turkey necks and duck necks. Neither of them gets on well with lamb (seems too rich in any quantity) so I don't feed lamb ribs. I also find that Louis thrives on about 10% bone in his diet but William can't cope with that much and becomes constipated. So there's an element of trial and error until you find what suits your dog best.

[BeeBoo]

Hi Elaine, thank you for your reply also

If you're on Facebook Melissa can I suggest you join one of the raw feeding groups? Raw Feeding UK and A.R.S.E (A Raw Start Explained) are both very helpful and have start up guides.

Most people start off with 1 protein source, typically chicken, and a limited amount of bone. If Buckley is normally fed kibble his stomach acid will need a bit of time to adjust to raw (it will naturally become more acidic) and bone is more difficult to digest than meaty chunks or mince.

The FB Raw groups are fantastic, I'm part of them but read as opposed to post (find it a big subject & feel comfortable asking cocker friends as we have same breed). I've taken their file guides and image charts and have a (I think) pretty comprehensive folder now. I'm not online a lot these days so trying to keep all info in my brain when I can't ask people for advice.

I'm doing the slowly-slowly approach - one meal raw, he's had chicken drumsticks (took the bone out) and beef mince (no bone in this - supermarket). Today I was making him pilchard biscuits and let him eat the egg shell. Would it be a good idea to give him a chicken wing at some point this week? I presume once he's been eating something easy like a chicken wing for a week or two I can introduce a new bone source such as ribs?

If I went to the local butcher, what do they typically give you away as their surplus?

[Jessie_Pup]

I am on Barf Diet Chat. Very friendly group.   Agree with Elaine about switching.   I started with chicken mince and then moved to other proteins did not introduce bones for a few weeks. i feed Natural Instinct which makes it easier. Now they have duck necks, duck feet, lamb ribs chicken wings. Jessie has chicken backs and spines, bit too difficult for Dylan .  Dylan was 12yrs when I switched him and his poops have been great. One thing you become even more of a poop watcher when they are on raw   Hope Buckley enjoys the raw.

Erica.

[BeeBoo]

Thanks Erica, just joined Barf Diet Chat 
He's loving it, cries as I'm preparing his food - no issues with it being uncooked 
Poos are as should be, dinky and compact! 

[Patp]

If you have a proper butcher he will be a good source of chicken carcasses or the odd ox heart which can be carved up into chunks, bagged and frozen.  I tend to by human grade food so I know what is in it    Sainsburys basic mince is about £1.50 and lasts for 2 meals.  I think I pay about a £1 for an ox heart.  As said before Morrisons has a good selection of lambs hearts / liver etc and I always have a look at the dates and cheekily ask for a reduction in the price! 

[elaine.e]

There's a potential problem with some supermarket meat, especially cheap frozen chicken, but I believe other meats too, as water, oil, phosphates and even sugar are sometimes added, apparently to keep the meat tender and to prevent it from drying out when cooking. This article is worth a read http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/06/supermarket-frozen-chicken-breasts-water. I've seen other articles in the past about additives in supermarket mince and pork too.

The raw meat sold by most, maybe all(?) UK raw dog food suppliers is human grade, apart from stuff like green tripe, which legally can't be sold for human consumption. The companies that I use state that nothing is added to their pure meat ranges and the ingredients added to their "complete" minces are not added to enhance the meat itself but are fresh vegetables, fruit, herbs etc. that some raw feeders believe add further nutrients to the diet.

I buy about 60% of my raw from companies like Natural Instinct, Laverstoke Farm and Nurturing By Nature and the rest from supermarkets. When I buy from supermarkets I tend to stick to things like heart, liver, kidney, oily fish and UK produced chicken and beef with nothing added (I hope)

My local butcher doesn't sell, let alone give away, anything for dogs

[bluegirl]

The first bones I gave to my 8 wk old pup when I started raw feeding was a strip of 2 lamb ribs together after a meat meal. I later moved on to chicken wings, thighs and legs, rabbit, duck, pork ribs, whole wood pigeons, turkey necks, lamb necks etc. I give marrowbones about once a fortnight as a recreational bone for teeth care, give too often and they can grind the teeth down.

If you are a bit worried at the beginning you can add crushed eggshell to the diet as a source of calcium along side the bones you are confident to give and build up from there. If you do crush the egg shells (you don't have to, but found mine wouldn't eat whole except one) its easier to do if you let the shell dry out first and it'll grind to a powder then. If worried about lamb bones, a good pair of chicken scissors can be used to snip them into small bits and a hammer will break up chicken thighs, legs, duck legs and rabbit bones. Sometimes with lamb neck bones they can get their canines stuck in the bone and you may have to intervene.