Totally confused

[rogertb]

Morning chaps, the feeding issue is starting to wind me up, there was a chap on 'Countryfile' on Sunday suggesting that everything was rubbish in one way or another ... no real conclusion/recommendation but I think he was suggesting that a 'complete' dry food was the correct balance with not too much rubbish. I've been doing a little research and found that there's a suggestion that wet foods have nasty preservatives ... maybe ... maybe not (hence confusion) then I bought some Iams  and Bella ate half then walked away then I find out that they test on animals.

Bella isn't a greedy dog, she often doesn't bother with her morning meal until much later in the day, she enjoys an occasional frozen sprat, a carrot and sometimes celery, I'll sometimes buy some liver and or kidney or other meat (especially when reduced in Waitrose) and I'll make up a treat from that sort of thing, maybe with some veg mixed in.

She has 'training' treats when we're out walking (gravy bone type of thing).

I guess I'm about to ask the impossible, maybe there's a 'sticky' or something but I've read through dozens of 'topics' here and continue to be confused, all I want to do is find a food that she will eat and will have no harmful effects, basically I want her to live forever !

Sorry about this long boring post but any advice very welcome.

Best Roger

[Pearly]

Great post! I shall watch with interest, like you I just want to feed Pearl the best.  She's currently on Skinners salmon and rice and seems to enjoy it (provided I've added a cod liver oil tablet  )

Jayne

[john51]

And that level of confusion is without considering raw feeding as a philosophy! The answer is there are many opinions but very little evidence and you will not find a single universally accepted answer. I will give you my opinion later when I've stuck some skirting board on the walls, but be prepared for as many views as there are types of food!

[elaine.e]

This could be a long thread!

I'm a raw feeder and convinced that it's the best for my dogs. Until I switched William to raw 4 years ago, when he was 5, he was always at the vets with itchy skin, ear infections and lip fold pyoderma. They all stopped when I changed him to raw and have never troubled him since. I'd tried him on various kibbles before then and although his skin was a bit better when he was on Burns than on 4 other previous kibbles it was still far from perfect.

With raw you need to do some research in order to work out a balanced diet, or feed one of the "complete" minces that contain bone. But once you've got the hang of it, and tweaked it a bit to suit your dog (for instance, William has quite a lot less bone than Louis or he becomes constipated) it's easy, fun and most dogs benefit hugely in my opinion.

But I realise that not everyone wants to feed raw. So it's then a case of looking at the ingredients in processed foods (wet or kibble) and deciding what's good and what isn't, or considering a home cooked diet. If you go for home cooked you need to do some research in order to work out a balanced diet, but once you've done that it can work well.

The argument for processed foods is that they contain (or should contain) all the nutrition a dog needs. Unfortunately many of them also contain a lot of unnecessary fillers to bulk the food out and make it cheaper, and there's no getting away from the fact that they are processed and not natural (sorry, raw feeding enthusiasm coming out there). They often include wheat and corn (maize) which many dogs find difficult to digest and some will be sensitive or allergic to. Again, research is needed to find the better quality ones and weed out the rubbish ones.

I saw Countryfile and agree that there was no absolute conclusion, but he made some very good points:

Avoid the multi coloured kibbles as they contain colours and preservatives to make them look attractive to humans (Baker's is a prime example and also has rubbish ingredients)

Avoid kibbles that are bulked out with maize, wheat etc. as they will have low nutritional value and dogs don't generally digest them well. Rubbish and fillers going in = lots of rubbish (large poos) coming out the other end!

Always look at the ingredients before you buy. Look for a named protein source as the main ingredient, such as a named meat or fish, not just something vague like "meat and animal derivatives"

He also said that raw is good but pointed out that you need to know how to feed a balanced diet.

The whichdogfood website is very helpful and has explanations of the minefield that is dog food labelling. But bear in mind that the star ratings are influenced by members of the public making recommendations and companies like Eden have, in my opinion, played that card very well. I'm not saying that Eden is rubbish, just that they've promoted it very well!

[john51]

I didn't see Countryfile but hope it was better than the recent Channel 5 programme on dog food. Elaine.e has given a good summary of the basic recommendations on food. (With one caveat!) My opinion, for what it's worth, is that you can successfully feed your dog on raw, wet or dry food and your choice will depend on your prejudices, preferences and various practical decisions. As I said, there is not much in the way of evidence for what is the one best choice so you have to make your own judgement.

There are better quality kibbles out there than IAMS if you choose that route. Foods such as Orijen, Acana, Taste of the Wild and others, stress higher meat content and often use lower cooking temperatures. All the ingredients are identified. I usually feed ToTW which is grain-free but have no particular down on grains as a component of dog food. This is where I would slightly disagree with elaine.e. Whereas I would suggest you avoid kibbles that have high percentages of wheat or corn, some wheat or other grain is not necessarily a bad thing and is not just a filler. Dogs have evolved alongside man and have developed the ability to use the nutritional value of grains. They are most definitely not wolves. Cooking of grains does make it easier for dogs to digest and there are plenty of studies to show that they do get useful nutrition from this type of ingredient. So, if you feed a kibble with grain in it you are not harming your dog.

Would I feed  my dog on raw food? Certainly, I would try it but my wife won't free up any freezer space. Do I believe that anyone who feeds their dog on processed food is killing them as some raw food advocates say. No, I don't. A lot of people say they have seen improvements in the health of their animals and you have to respect their  experience, but I have not seen any evidence that raw food either extends or leads to a healthier life for the dog. I'm perfectly happy to change my mind and buy another freezer if that evidence is found.

So the bottom line is there is no easy answer. Choose a good quality food, make sure their diet is balanced, and enjoy them. Whatever you feed them they will not, sadly, live forever.

[BobnDot]

What a great post john51, a nicely balanced view of the dog food minefield.

I think that raw food, tinned food and kibble all have their strengths and weaknesses but it's down to the owner to choose a type of food that fits in with their lifestyle and is nutritionally suited to their particular dog.

Although we have the time to devote to feeding raw food I'm not convinced that I have the skill or experience to be able to recognise a balanced diet when I see it. We've chosen to feed a kibble and our two are fed on Orijen and Acana. These are generally accepted as being among the best kibbles available and are rated highly on the Whichdogfood site so that helps to make my choice for me.

I'm sure we'd all wish that our dogs could live forever  but, unfortunately, that cannot be. The best we can do is feed them a good quality food and make their regrettably short lives as healthy, happy and interesting as we can.

Bob.

[rogertb]

Thanks to all contributors, it all makes excellent reading.

Does anyone know of a good 'all-in-one' that's made in the UK ? I see Acana and Orijen are Canadian and 'Taste of the Wild' is American, are they really made in those countries or produced under licence here ? Can they really be shipping stuff of that sort of weight all over the world. Sorry I seem to have drifted away from 'dog food' to 'air miles' - another of my worries.

Anyway I'll attempt to work my way through the Whichdogfood site which list 402 - yes 402 - foods suitable for our Bella.

Dog food is obviously very big business.

Roger

[Walshies]

We feed Fudge Eden - no additives and he loves it plus his coat and general health are great.  Poo solid also.

IMHO Try not to over complicate it and just find a food your dog likes and stick with it. We found Eden early on and have not looked back.

[john51]

As Walshies says, Eden is highly rated by many and is made in the UK. It didn't seem to suit Lenny as well as the others I've mentioned but might be perfect for Bella. Barking Heads is also UK-made and is rated by many owners. It does seem odd that the food I referenced comes so far but at least it comes from countries that have good animal welfare standards and uses local ingredients. I'd always assumed that they would ship it by boat but you may be right and it's jetted over. It may also not always be obvious where some of the ingredients come from for food even when it's made in this country, so you'd need to investigate their sourcing policy to ease your food-miles concerns!

[Ali101]

We feed 'Millies Wolfheart' and there are lots of recipes with different protein sources, game, fish, poultry etc, depending on which one suits the needs of your dog. They also do a range of 70/30 and 60/40 and now 75/25 mixes of protein to carbs and fruit. All the products used are human grade and the staff are very good at answering questions. We chose Millies over Eden as Isla is not suited to egg or chicken and unlike Eden, Millies don't use egg in any flavoured kibble. We too wanted to feed a good kibble but preferably support a homegrown product. Both girls love the food, we have 'countryside! Which is lamb, rabbit and duck and is 60/40 and a 14.5kg bag is £50 incl delivery. We also give them lamb skin treats which they adore!
Having fed Arden Grange for years, we saw the price go up and the quality of the ingredients go down, hence our change. (Just to add, yes, 'Millies' is made by Golden Acres, as is Arden Grange, which they have explained, but the "recipes" so-to-speak are made for each individual company, and GA is the facility used to make the kibble, as it is one of the few units in the UK with the capability to make the quantities of kibble needed using the extrusion method)
We are very happy with Millies, they have always been honest and upfront about their products and there is a good Facebook group where lots of questions get asked and answered. As has been said, Find a decent one and stick with it if it suits, there is no perfect food out there  I'm afraid.

[Emilyoliver]

I feed Simpsons.  They have normal, sensitive and 80/20 varieties.  It's produced in the Uk by a small company that's consistently provided me with very good service, and it's not excessively expensive either (I have 3 dogs so cost does enter into my choices).

John's post is spot on.  The best 'advice' relating to dog food that i've read was very very simple: The best dog food is the one that suits both you (convenience and cost wise), and that suits your dog (healthwise).  Anyone else's opinions on whatever you have chosen should have very little bearing.  And try not to be swayed by the latest new, 'best ever' dog food that comes out.  there are new ones out weekly it would seem, as changing food often doesn't allow you to gauge properly whether a specific one really suits your dog (unless of course it really doesn't  ).

[Geordietyke]

I'm still on a quest to find the best one for Archie.  He is currently on Simpsons Sensitive (which is adores) but is producing a fair bit of waste  even though it's supposed to be a good food with no grains.  I like to ask for opinions to point me in the right direction but I'm going to have to try, over a few month period, 2/3 different types of kibble before I find the right one for us!