Author Topic: General pedigree question  (Read 3761 times)

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Offline karen1960

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General pedigree question
« on: November 24, 2014, 08:47:19 PM »
Is it ok for a puppy,s dam and sire to share the same sire.

Just seen a puppy,s pedigree which shows this.  Is it ok.  Any advice please.


Offline MIN

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Re: General pedigree question
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2014, 09:11:38 PM »
so the pups mum and pups dad have the same dad. brother and sister  .    not much of a gene mix
interesting
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Offline karen1960

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Re: General pedigree question
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2014, 09:21:40 PM »
Yes,the pup's mum and dad share the same dad but with with a different bitch - if that makes sense

Offline elaine.e

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Re: General pedigree question
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2014, 10:15:19 PM »
I think that's very poor breeding, way too close, and I'm really surprised that a breeder went ahead and bred such a litter.

The Kennel Club website has a programme where breeders can enter the names of KC registered dogs they're thinking of breeding and the coefficient of breeding is calculated, which they can then compare with the average for the breed. http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/

Was it a Cocker litter? If it was a rare breed with a very small gene pool I guess it might be more likely to happen.

Offline karen1960

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Re: General pedigree question
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2014, 10:23:00 PM »
Yes it is a cocker spaniel breeder.  Just typed in the dam and sire of puppy and the kennel club website brings up a mating in-breeding co-efficient prediction of 19% - 9.6% is annual average.  Just wondered if this would mean puppy would be more prone to genetic problems as both parents shared the same genes.  Am not an expert but wanted advice on health issues of this.

Thank you for your reply.

Offline elaine.e

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Re: General pedigree question
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 11:11:10 PM »
Do you know if the parents or grandparents of the puppy have been health tested? If any of them have been DNA tested for either PRA or FN the results should be on the KC website. There are other tests that should be done too, such as a one off eye test for glaucoma and hip scoring.

Even if all those tests have been done and the parents are clear, I would imagine there may be other risks of such close breeding that don't relate to inheritable conditions. But I don't know what they might be. One thing I know for sure, I wouldn't buy a puppy from the litter, or indeed from the breeder.

It also makes me wonder about how closely related some pedigree dogs that aren't KC registered might be. If someone decides to mate their unregistered bitch with the unregistered dog from down the road, for instance, they're unlikely to know if the dogs are closely related.

Offline karen1960

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Re: General pedigree question
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2014, 09:07:33 AM »
Both parents and grand-dad are FN and PRA - one grandmother FN clear and one FN and PRA Clear.

However, I am concerned as to what genetic health problems might be lurking in the background with these little puppies.  However, there might not be any I guess. 

Any further input would be very useful.

Many thanks Elaine for the information you have given me.

Kind regards.

Offline Jane S

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Re: General pedigree question
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2014, 12:04:48 PM »
I can't see the justification for mating a half brother and sister together - like Elaine says, this isn't a rare breed with a narrow gene pool so there seems no need to breed so closely these days :-\
Jane

Offline phoenix

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Re: General pedigree question
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2015, 05:20:36 PM »
I would say no thank you.
I had a rehomed show dog from a top breeder (not cocker). When I found out her kennel name and looked up the pedigree, her inbreeding co-efficient was 25%' with the same name cropping up a few times. Two years on she developed lifelong auto-immune conditions.  The breeder has since widened up the gene pool considerably . My neighbour had one of their stud dogs, and he developed kidney problems and glaucoma, both now subject to health tests.   We both shouldered huge vet bills.
Even with cockers on the forum , there are often references to really good dogs that died by the time they were nine yrs old.   Having the recommended tests sadly doesn't guarantee a long life.
Maybe a breeder could mention the general health and longevity of their previous dogs.
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.

Offline karen1960

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Re: General pedigree question
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2015, 03:43:48 PM »
Thank you for your reply Phoenix.

I think it would be very useful to have information on the general health and longevity of the parents and perhaps grandparents of any prospective puppy you are considering whatever the breed.

However, whatever the health tests etc of any prospective puppy/parents you can never guarantee in life perfect health etc - it is all a bit of a lottery really.

Karen

Offline phoenix

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Re: General pedigree question
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2015, 04:30:29 PM »
Yes it is a lottery.  Reading the Health section on Col is enough to make anyone worry!
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.