Kibble or raw chicken mince ???

[Chestersmum]

We are in a dilemma over what to feed our 6 month old cocker Chester.

He is a greedy boy and always seems starving, is still on 3 meals per day, when on kibble, he poos loads, farts a lot and also has seems to have put on weight, when on rawmince and veg which he also wolfs  down he poos less and not so smelly doesnt pass wind but if you dont get to it before him eats his poo too he seems a bit leaner on raw he eats anything that is given to him ( and things that are not) he also enjoys sardines liver has anyone else had this problem.?

[elaine.e]

Hello and welcome to COL

When you feed raw, do you mainly feed chicken mince, and how much? Puppies need a lot more food than adults and if he's not having much variety when fed raw and seems lean I wonder if you're not feeding him enough and not giving him the variety and range of raw foods that he needs.

Could you give a bit more detail please? Information such as his current weight, how much raw you feed him every day and the types of raw you feed? There are plenty of experienced raw feeders on here who should be able to give some good advice if you're still finding your feet with feeding raw

[JeffD]

Not sure if he is getting enough bone on just chicken mince, what is the percentage of bone in the chicken ?. I would also add some tripe mince if he is a bit lean  I would not worry to much as some very active pups can be thin no matter how much you give them

As Elaine has posted we really need to know how much he is getting and what percentages of meat, bone and offal.

As to eating his own poo, yep they do that    the pup will normally grow out of it and only eat cat, horse, sheep and rabbit poo 

[Chestersmum]

Hello yes I do mainly feed chicken mince 300g a day sometimes liver and once a week a tin of sardines this us mixed with sweet potato or brown rice, green veg, carrots beans or whatever veg available he has some treats kibble type through the day when training etc also some blueberries, apple slices ocasionally when I said lean, he looked good in at the waist a little bit he weighs 12kg   a week or two after changing him to kibble his tummy goes rounder and from back looks slightly round each side perhaps slightly bloated I am too squeamish to give things like lamb spines chicken carcass etc so perhaps if the mince is not enough perhaps a good quality kibble is the way to go

[Mudmagnets]

Perhaps if you are not keen on feeding bones, a wet food may be more suitable? these come in all sorts of different meats and poultry,  fish too, they are complete meals with either rice or if you want to go grain free there are  a variety of them too.

Maybe you could alternate meals between frozen and wet instead of frozen and/or kibble?

There is also a product called 'edible bone meal for dogs', that you mix in (sparingly) with the food and I found that helped firm up Minstrel's poo when we were having problems.

[elaine.e]

Hello yes I do mainly feed chicken mince 300g a day sometimes liver and once a week a tin of sardines this us mixed with sweet potato or brown rice, green veg, carrots beans or whatever veg available he has some treats kibble type through the day when training etc also some blueberries, apple slices ocasionally when I said lean, he looked good in at the waist a little bit he weighs 12kg   a week or two after changing him to kibble his tummy goes rounder and from back looks slightly round each side perhaps slightly bloated I am too squeamish to give things like lamb spines chicken carcass etc so perhaps if the mince is not enough perhaps a good quality kibble is the way to go

300g raw meat for a 6 month old pup weighing 12kg is only around half of what he should be getting. The link I've posted at the end of this post will help you with how much he should be fed and the types of food he needs. At 6 months and weighing 12kg he should be fed around 600g of raw meat per day. Any veggies that you add should be seen as an extra rather than an essential part of his diet, and he doesn't need rice at all.

Most raw feeders aim for a balance of about 80% muscle meat, 10% bone and 10% offal, of which half should be liver. Bone is essential for calcium, especially in a growing puppy and he really needs it in his diet, If he's been without calcium in his diet for some time you're putting him at risk of not developing properly. He should also have much more variety in the meat that he's being fed. Different meats have different protein levels and nutrients, and variety is one of the keys to a well balanced raw diet.

Please don't think I'm being critical here, or trying to put you off raw. I'm trying to help by giving you some pointers towards a better balanced diet for your puppy. There are plenty of pre-prepared minces available from suppliers such as Natural Instinct, Wolftucker and many others. Most of them contain bone and are 80% - 100% meat. Avoid the few that contain more than 20% veggies because their meat content won't be high enough.
 
Please have a read through this http://dogsdinner2.webs.com/feedingpuppies.htm and also, if you're on Facebook, join one or two of the raw feeding groups on there to learn more. Rawfeeding Rebels and Raw Feeding UK are good groups to join.

Good luck with whatever you decide, but if you decide to stick with raw please do some more research and ask questions here and elsewhere.

[Joules]

Agree with Elaine here.  If you are going to feed raw, you need to thoroughly research what is needed for a balanced diet.  I agree that he needs a far wider range of types of meat including bone and offal as well as different types of muscle meat.  This is vital for any raw fed dog, but for a pup there is a real risk of developmental and growth problems if he does not get the right balance of nutrients. 

If you don't want to go the full DIY raw route, there are several excellent complete raw foods available now like Natural Instinct or Nutriment which you might want to look into 

You might like to have a read of this thread to get you started: http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=97551.0

[lescef]

I must admit that I 'cheat' and feed mine Nutriment, along with chicken wings and the occasional egg and sardines. I am lucky enougn to live close to the shop run by the owner of the site Elaine mentioned (dogsdinner)
After speaking to them we came to the conclusion that as my two are small spaniels, one pack a day meets their needs beautifully so there was little point making up my own. Maybe that option will suit Chester when he is fully grown.

[Murphys Law]

I live close to the same shop as lescef so I cheat as well, but my dogs eat Natural Instinct.

[Archie bean]

If you decide not to go fully down the raw route then you could try a good quality wet food instead of kibble. I feed Wainwrights wet trays but others are available.

[Mudmagnets]

If you decide not to go fully down the raw route then you could try a good quality wet food instead of kibble. I feed Wainwrights wet trays but others are available.

Changed Minstrel from Forthglade to Wainwrights and he loves it too 

[its.sme]

I was told that, even with the complete Raw food you still need to add a meal of bone each week.
Bone is so important for dogs especially pups, I've seen the affects of both low and high calcium in blood, it's very dangerous so a well balanced diet is a must.

There are plenty of Raw Feeders hear that can help.

Sharon.

[elaine.e]

I was told that, even with the complete Raw food you still need to add a meal of bone each week.
Bone is so important for dogs especially pups, I've seen the affects of both low and high calcium in blood, it's very dangerous so a well balanced diet is a must.

There are plenty of Raw Feeders hear that can help.

Sharon.

It depends how much bone is in the pre-prepared minces. Some have as much as 40%, if they're minced chicken carcasses for instance, most have 10-20% and of course some, such as tripe, won't have any at all. If the minces fed over the course of a week or so contain enough bone overall there's no need to feed a meal of just a bone, although raw bones can be very effective tooth cleaners and chewing is a relaxing activity for dogs.

[its.sme]

Thanks elaine, Bea was on Natural Instinct's and they also advise to feed a meal of bone a week, as you say depends on the mix.

Bone is a very good teath cleaner, although tripe sticks are also good.

[Chestersmum]

Thank you everyone for your information and ideas was particularly interested in reading the dogs dinner extract about changing a puppy over to raw feeding,  i realise now that i will be better off feeding wet or kibble so am looking into a good quality make to change to