Recall getting worse - is it me or him?

[Barry H]

But I can see it bothers some owners, and their dogs, to have a bouncing Cocker barrelling towards them full pelt, with me debating whether to hold my ground until he comes back or tramp after him.

I think that is the key point. Somebody might be out with a reactive dog and there's nothing worse than an off lead dog appearing out of the blue if that's the case. Please don't think I'm having a go. Murphy used to run up to every dog on the field when he was a pup and got a few good tellings off.

You're absolutely right, of course.  I didn't mean to imply that I give Jack a free reign to do whatever he pleases.  I'm sorry if that's how it came across, but especially with youngsters and free-running recall training, the inevitable grouchy dog is bound to appear sooner or later, even with the best intentions/precautions.   Just trying to offer some reassurance that 'a few good tellings off' is no bad thing and part of growing up (just like kids)! 

[lescef]

Sorry, but I have to disgree with the statement 'a few good tellings off' is a good thing. It most certainly isn't,  for either dog. It's like someone running up behind you,  getting into your personal space and screaming in your face. Dogs need their own space too.
The dog doing the telling off is practicing the behaviour which may become ingrained and repeated. After all, he's telling the other dog he doesn't like it. The dog on the receiving end can become more and more fearful then also starts to respond in the same way as a way of protecting itself.
I now know this from experience.  Off lead dogs running up to us turn Maddie into a fearful wreck.
You may be lucky and have a dog that doesn't mind being growled at, but cockers are sensitive souls. It's good if they have doggy friends whom they know well, but I am really against letting a dog run over to an unknown dog. Sorry for the rant!

[Pearly]

I've written quite a lot on this thread already but here's my view on puppy v adult dog socialisation

It's important for a pup to socialise not only to learn bite inhibition as a very young pup / litter mate but also to start to learn other dogs "body language/behaviour signals" so they learn to respond correctly and in turn educate other dogs.

By the time they are teething (c 6 months) they lose their "puppy licence" and you start to run the risk that other dogs will be less tolerant. It's at this point I will stop socialising my dogs in future but to be fair we have 3 cockers so they have plenty of canine comaonionship at home - that isn't always a good thing either, Monday night Pearl nipped Coral over a bag of food shopping, Coral bit Pearl back but harder.....she's now, rightly, wary and appears to have learnt a lesson until the next bag event....

Adult dogs do not need to be socialised.  I'm going to confess that for a long time I held the view that all dogs should get along and play together but that was really to satisfy my need to prove to myself (and probably others) that I have a nice, well behaved, can be taken anywhere, dog! It wasn't about what was right for my dog.....

I take the dogs training.  Group training means taking it in turns to work/train your dog - the benefit is that as a dog handler I learn from watching others with their dogs as much as taking part myself.  The dogs never get to meet, not even the odd sniff.  One of the first exercises is to teach the dog not to interact with other dogs - as I've previously said, on a shoot you would be asked to leave if your dog interfered with another.

I guess over 5 years I've become more dog savvy - a lot of which is due to this forum  and learnt that the need to have my dog being all cute and sweetly playing with another dog is about satisfying my needs not the dogs and by letting happen I run the risk of either ending up with a dog on the receiving end of an attack or causing another dog to become so frightened it is fear reactive.

We have an area locally where a friend was walking their Jack Russell and a young girl with a large dog asked if they could come over to meet and let the dogs say hello - the result was a trip to the vets for puncture wounds on the Jack Russell and the girl (late teens he thinks) was apologetic saying "he's never done that before"......

Long lines are good. It's paying off with Coral, who on Sunday was perfect at training and off lead - in an open field - and had brilliant recall.  This to he extent that we have now moved up to the advanced class.  Last nights training was a whole different affair, had she not been on a longline I'm certain I'd have been watching a black streak heading across 2 fields to the geese she heard!  It is a long slow process, made more so as she has such a high prey drive but the end result will be so worth all the effort (or so I keep telling myself  )

[ejp]

Daisy is fear aggressive and very reactive.  I need to manage her walks and keep an eye out for dogs on the loose, so to speak.  Most folk I meet are now aware that she has issues (not her fault, people made her that way) but one guy has a black lab that walks off lead all the time and charges over to her, and it sets her off completely.  I have been polite, grumpy and downright rude to this numpty, but I cannot get it through to him, that because his dog 'wants to play' it does not mean my wee girl does.  I do take Daisy to classes when possible, and we have a spot at the door so we can nip out for 5 mins when it gets too much for her.  I am well aware of her limitations, and with careful and slow introductions she now has two dog friends, and will happily meet them.  So this big long waffle was just to say thank you to those of you who are kind and considerate, when you meet people like Daisy and I out on walks. Thank you. x

[Londongirl]

Can I say a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread? It's so helpful to get views from both sides of the fence - as puppy owners and owners of older dogs. I have been conscious that Henry is now nearly fully grown and that means some of his more puppyish behaviour is no longer acceptable. It's not something that's really mentioned when we are encouraged to socialise our puppies.

[lescef]

Can I say a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread? It's so helpful to get views from both sides of the fence - as puppy owners and owners of older dogs. I have been conscious that Henry is now nearly fully grown and that means some of his more puppyish behaviour is no longer acceptable. It's not something that's really mentioned when we are encouraged to socialise our puppies.

Bit off thread still but, there is a  view that socialisation has been misunderstood and that includes myself! A few years ago we were told to let our puppies socialise with lots of dogs, so we just let them off the lead to say hello. We now know the socialisation needs to be controlled and a positive experience for the dog, checking that the other dog is calm and friendly before you approach. It's all a learning curve!!

[Redked]

It's been a real learning curve for all of us this cocker ownership  I totally agree with your point,  Londongirl, re being encouraged to socialise our pups and we were exactly the same as you in everything we did, as I said earlier. Bonnie was off lead from the beginning but soon realising Bonnie was a pest to other dogs.It's ok for puppy trainers to drill socialising our pups into us (as ours did!) but thought really should be given to the dogs that our puppies want to socialise with. Our trainer never advised this was an issue. Thankfully,  like you, we took our own steps to stop this and Bonnie was put on lead walks for a long time unless there were no other dogs in sight at all. Des (OH) used to take her to woods that were always empty to still give her a good off lead run with no fear of other dogs. I used to walk her in more public places so most of my walks with her as a pup were on lead but let off for short times if it was totally clear. Bonnie now has great recall and very little interest in other dogs but she's not anti social and does occasionally have a good old play with one or two dogs who we meet. She also has no problem being put back on lead at any time and will come and sit for her lead to be clipped on, even if I've only just let her off. She learnt this really quickly but I do admit to giving treats every time she was put on lead so she has always associated the lead going on as a good thing.

 Good luck with all the training. We've all been there and in the end you will still have a sociable dog but you will also have a totally reliable dog who isn't going to upset or scare other dogs. It's about respecting other people and their dogs and is as important as socialisation xx

[bizzylizzy]

This has been an interesting thread and most has been said but I just wanted mention what happened yesterday as I do think its relevant. I mentioned before that our trainer organizes walks, - really just to help the dogs socialize, but its "controlled".Yesterda afternoon someone brought along a rescue mongrel who clearly had issues and was snarling and barking non stop, which naturally set most of the others off. Our trainer, who knows Humphrey's placid nature, suggested trying him and the mongrel to run free first and then see what happened - Humph' was acting as mediator. I was a bit apprehensive, there were no other dogs there that Humphrey knew (the group tends to be changing constantly) but trust this chap wholeheartedly, so we gave it a go. The mongrel snarled and barked, Humphrey, as expected, gave him the canine version of two fingers and trotted off to look for someone else to play with. Taking his lead, the other dogs followed suit and very soon the mongrel, realizing it wasn't having any effect, gave up. There were a couple of small barking sessions but after an hours walk, the newcomer was behaving really well. My point is, that in a controlled environment, many (obviously not all) of these fear agression issues can be dealt with, it just needs someone who can "read" the dogs to lead the way, but just putting two strange dogs together and expecting them to sort it out, isn't probably the wisest way to go.

[lescef]

It's really good that Humphrey behaves appropriately,  giving out calming signals and can be used as a stooge dog. He must be 'bomb-proof!' 
I wish we had group walks round here, it's just what Maddie needs. 

[Londongirl]

Well, have just been for a walk with a friend at a new park and his recall was AWFUL. About 50%, whereas before it was 95%, the 5% being when he was playing with another dog. I had to go retrieve him several times, something I only do as a last resort as I can usually get him to come to me.  Something has definitely happened and it may just be his age (8 months next week). He has started not coming in from the garden when called too.     

Back to basics for me. Time to find a new tasty treat and work on getting back the spin on his heels to 'come' that we had two weeks ago. And make good use of that long line.

Well done Humphrey for being a model student! My friends think Henry is my comeuppance for having two very well behaved kids that are now very mellow teenagers!

[Pearly]

More than likely age and will get worse before better - long line, lead only and that includes your garden.  It's a pest but I really wish I'd been firmer and more consistent with Coral as it will be a long process this summer to "bring her back in".

We now have a restricted area in the garden and Coral still goes out on the lead.  On a plus note my back lawn is starting to recover 

[Gromit]

Just a thought: has there been a change in his hearing? My Darcey had perfect recall until a few months ago, it took me a while to realise how deaf she had become when during a "wait" game indoors she didn't hear me call her name quite loudly from three feet away behind an open door (and she knew there was cheese in the offing if she waited for the call!)

[bizzylizzy]

It's really good that Humphrey behaves appropriately,  giving out calming signals and can be used as a stooge dog. He must be 'bomb-proof!' 
I wish we had group walks round here, it's just what Maddie needs. 

Couldn't you try and organize something yourself? Ours are organized by our trainer but they're not part of the training - he does it as an extra and its open to anyone. Perhaps if you could find another couple of people who'd be interested and then look for a local trainer who'd be willing to walk with you for say an hour in the week. We pay him 5 euros each but actually its a doddle for him, he walks his own dog,  gets cash in hand from us and he's got no overheads as such, so its a win/win situation. 

[Pearly]

It's really good that Humphrey behaves appropriately,  giving out calming signals and can be used as a stooge dog. He must be 'bomb-proof!' 
I wish we had group walks round here, it's just what Maddie needs. 

Couldn't you try and organize something yourself? Ours are organized by our trainer but they're not part of the training - he does it as an extra and its open to anyone. Perhaps if you could find another couple of people who'd be interested and then look for a local trainer who'd be willing to walk with you for say an hour in the week. We pay him 5 euros each but actually its a doddle for him, he walks his own dog,  gets cash in hand from us and he's got no overheads as such, so its a win/win situation. 

Or organise a COL meet 

There is light at the end of the tunnel - another great session this evening with only a couple of attempts to scarper! That in an area with pheasants - lots of scent, lots of sound and a couple flying over head   

Gromit - both dogs are 7-8 months old and Coral is now 15 months but you are right with regard to hearing, it's still developing in our dogs and does explain some of the "deafness" but I'm afraid most of it is adolescence and sheer naughtiness (in Coral's case  )

[Londongirl]

Oh, Henry hears me alright. Looks right at me with that 'Yeah, so what?' look and carries on with what he was doing. Or just sits and waits to see what I'm gonna do about it. Little monkey.