Night time toilet training

[Ambler54]

Rosie, again ( beginning to suspect as first time dog owners We are making every mistake in the book) , is still messing over night.She is nearly 6 months, is great during the day but We cannot crack the nights.What is so annoying is that I know She can as we were away in the camper at Easter and She slept all night and was fine for about a week when back home, no mess at all, i was getting up at 6 to let Her out, no problems.I have set an alarm and tried to find when it is She needs to go, 4/5 am still too sleepy, looks at me as if I am mad when I put Her out, wees, falls back into bed, I go upstairs and within half an hour can smell the inevitable. 5 am still too early, 5 .15 too early ..or too late, getting my drift.Tried feeding last feed early and having a walk after.She is also a fussy eater ( see above re daft parents) so am trying 2 feeds a day so She is hungry, late breakfast then tea around 5 .30 and She eats both with enthusiasm , but that last big meal is producing copious amounts of poo in the early hours!!So should I go back to  the 3 meals , She is not  a morning dog so breakfast is late, so do a late lunch and a very late tea with the hope she wont need to do the dooos until next morning.She sleeps downstairs, in an open crate, had terrible tum for weeks after injections so couldnt shut crate over night now She hates door shut  and the crate is not Her bed of choice during the day.We have a rescue cat who sleeps upstairs and is not terribly impressed with having Rosie around. Oh and The poos still range from pickupable to omg how am I going to clean that up, but thats another issue. Ps She is lovely.

[Londongirl]

This is a difficult one and I don't have a solution - sorry! But some observations.

If the crate is open, is she pooping in the crate or outside it? If she didn't poop in the camper I wonder if that because she knew it was the 'den' and didn't want to. If it's outside the crate, might it be worth slowly getting her used to it being closed? Pop her in during the day with a toy or treat and close it briefly, building up the time? I find the crate so useful I'd be at a loss if I couldn't close it. At six months I'd have trusted Henry out of it, but at eight months he has got naughty again, and I'd be worried leaving him uncrated overnight.

It's probably also worth try to get her food and tummy sorted while you're at it. It took us months to find the right food for Henry but now he's on the right one for him (Burns puppy kibble) it's two or three solid poops a day, no more poop soup! He eats at 6:30am and 5:30pm and the poop from his tea doesn't appear until morning.

Good luck!

[bizzylizzy]

First, - you're not daft parents at all - all dogs are different and even the most experienced owners can have problems sometimes, that's really what the dorum is all about!! ;)What do you feed her on? I'm not very wise about all the dog food brands in UK, someone else will be of more help there no doubt, but if she's pooing copious amounts, that would indicate her body isn't digesting it properly, perhaps a change of food could help? How was it when she was on 3 meals?

[Geordietyke]

I'm planning on closing Monty's door when he's around 3-4 months old for his naps during the day initially, just to see if he will "ask" to go out or not.  If successful, I'll close the door overnight too and monitor (providing he has started being clean overnight).  His poo is very soft (it's early days) but I'm going to slowly introduce some Nutriment Raw to see if he takes to it, which in turn, will help harden his deposits 

I was determined to have him comfortable in his crate from day 1 and although he initially cries for a few minutes when I pop him in his pen (with crate attached), he'll nap in there for up to an hour whilst I get on with other things, something else I needed to do as my last cocker was very attached to me (not good, in the end).  Why not try some "time outs" during the day and see how it goes?

[Londongirl]

I'm planning on closing Monty's door when he's around 3-4 months old for his naps during the day initially, just to see if he will "ask" to go out or not.  If successful, I'll close the door overnight too and monitor (providing he has started being clean overnight).  His poo is very soft (it's early days) but I'm going to slowly introduce some Nutriment Raw to see if he takes to it, which in turn, will help harden his deposits 

I was determined to have him comfortable in his crate from day 1 and although he initially cries for a few minutes when I pop him in his pen (with crate attached), he'll nap in there for up to an hour whilst I get on with other things, something else I needed to do as my last cocker was very attached to me (not good, in the end).  Why not try some "time outs" during the day and see how it goes?

I did a closed crate from day one with Henry, just stayed close in case he asked to go. I'd always take him out for a wee before putting him in, even if it was for five minutes. If he got in by himself for a nap I'd come over and close it, no fuss, just quietly close it and move away. Never had an accident and he really doesn't seem to care about the crate being locked.

[Ambler54]

I couldnt shut Her is her crate as her poo was at times like a fountain, chicken and rice plus thickener from the vets then special food, another lot of injections and Stronghold, back to the runs  etc etc .Unfortunately She got used to chicken/ fish/ Turkey so any kibble was looked at with comtempt.Tried Burns mixed with prescription diet , hated the food, still runny poos, now on Wainwrights, poos still unpredictable and She backs away from it, has to be really hungry to eat it, so now slowly introducing Natures Way, slightly higher protein, and even at 1/3 mix She is loving it, but waiting to see what happens poo wise. So thats the food.I am thinking of trying the crate closed thing again , but have sort of felt if you need to go you need to go, we are away in the van soon, and She goes in to be spayed when We get back so everything is going to be out of sorts for a while but that might be a good time to introduce a new regime.If all else fails we are away again in June for 10 days , fingers crossed that will break the night time habit.Otherwise Me and Rosie will just have to sleep in the van.lol.

[Ambler54]

And the little terror hasnt had a poo all day......saving it all up for tonight.......

[daw]

If she slept happily through the night in the camper van was that because she was with you or a least very close? Cockers are so sensitive and hate isolation- that's why I would never consider using a closed crate which has the potential to increase anxiety in any dog. (I work for rescue and see disturbed dogs that have been crated.)  You say the cat would be unimpressed if a dog slept upstairs. Well maybe it'll get over it- or not and decide to sleep elsewhere. But you'll get a night's sleep. Dogs desire company so much more than cats do. I'd give the dog precedence every time.

[MIN]

And the little terror hasnt had a poo all day......saving it all up for tonight.......

little horror 

[Ambler54]

Thank you Daw, that is sort of what I thought but as so many suggest the crate , even at puppy class, I felt I was doing the wrong thing not crating Her. The OH feels the same about crating, we will see how She goes at the weekend and if She goes all night We will have to sort out the sleeping arrangements.Rosie looks so sad when I tuck Her in Her crate, even though its open, and leave Her downstairs.Now, just need to break the news to the cat, who by the way sleeps curled up with me.....
Hmmm maybe both Rosie and cat have realised I'm a sucker.

[daw]

  Well if you are there are two more here! Good luck to you and Rosie, bless her.

[Londongirl]

It's very true you have to work with the dog you've got. Henry loves his crate and will often scoot to the back with a dirty look if there are too many people in the kitchen. But it's not for all dogs.

[its.sme]

Everybody I spoke to before getting Bea said to use a Crate, "they love them it's there little den" well no one told Bea, I persevered as I thought is was best for a while.

I slept downstairs with her and when she stirred it was outside for her, star gazing for me

She thankfully was clean but clearly hated her crate, my back ached and I longed for a full nights sleep so I decided to Puppy Proof my room and go for it, she had a comfy bed that was far too big for her at the time , I took the torch to bed with me and she slept through for 6hrs, I however didn't as I kept checking that she was still breathing

I made mistakes we all do, Bea turned out really well and I enjoy a good nights sleep.

One thing to remember, Rosie is not in any Puppy Book, she is unique as are you and you will find your way.

Sharon & Bea

[Geordietyke]

My last two cockers absolutely hated their crates and wouldn't use one during the day (they both toileted in it if I left them there).  No amount of cajoling or training would get them comfortable with it so I simply used a puppy pen when I left them and trusted them to roam free after around 9 months old in a puppy proof area.  Each dog is different as I'm finding out with my new one, he loves his crate!  You just find a way which suits you and your dog.

[bizzylizzy]

and that bottom line is really "the bottom line" - although there are lots of things they "all " do and don't do, they're still little individuals with different genes and different personalities and characteristics, some inborn, some as a result of experience. I do think with all the information that we access to, we forget that sometimes. Do what's best for you and your dog and don't be pressurd by people  telling you what you should, there are no set rules. Best of luck!