Training to walk loose lead and recall advice

[Briggo09]

Hi my boy Charlie is nearly 5.5months old. At home he is very obedient and mostly very calm. Have always practiced not letting him pull on walks  and have had some very good results with this- using methods of turning and going back the way I've come from, holding a treat and telling him 'with me' and treating at regular intervals. The only problems I have are when he sees other dogs/people/birds etc. Or when he knows the route we are taking means we are off to the playing field. I know he is young and very excitable and he is so friendly and wants to be everyone's friend, but is there any techniques to make him less excitable when these things occur, I let him say hello to other dogs and people but it then takes me a while to settle him back down into a nice walk.

Also I have always practiced recall from very young and I have similar problems to the above. I am now starting to use a long line to try and reinforce this because when there is distractions I get ignored, and although he is only off lead over the field- if he approaches the wrong dog or grabs something he shouldn't I have no control. I'm considering whistle training with his long line, is this the correct approach? I believe over the months I have had him we have accidentally conditioned him to think he can sometimes ignore his voice command to come back, and so think a fresh approach could tackle this.

Any advice would be appreciated
Thanks
Aaron

[Londongirl]

I'd definitely recommend the whistle training. There is a sticky at the top of this part of the forum from Top Barks that gives great advice on this.

At around the same age, Henry's recall got quite poor. He had, like you say, learned he didn't always need to respond to 'come'. I started whistle training and had him on the long line for the last month of three months total training. The long line was essential for making sure we didn't 'break' the new recall. I tested it out against all his favourite distractions.

Henry is now 9.5 months old and in the last few weeks is back off the lead and his recall is very good. Not perfect yet. If he sees a dog he wants to play with, I can get him back if he has just set off, but if he's already playing, the whistle is no good. We are still working on that. I usually incorporate 10-15 minutes long line training into our long morning walk, just to keep fine tuning it.

The thing I would say about the whistle training is that it has improved Henry's behaviour off the lead at all times, not just when I blow the whistle. He will be foraging about in the woods and if I just call his name he comes barrelling out to find me (and get a biscuit). If he runs ahead, he will stop and wait where paths diverge to let me catch up and tell him which way we are going. The other day I met a friend in an open field. We were chatting, Henry was skipping around. He saw some dogs in the distance, moved towards them, then stopped and looked at me, waiting to be told if he could go or not. I can honestly say I've never seen him do that before! I think all the training that goes with the whistle also builds that relationship where it is the two of us in collaboration going for our walk. I only NEED to blow the whistle a few times, the rest of the time he is either with me or comes back just on the call of his name.

[Briggo09]

Thanks for your reply! I've given the top barks thread a look and seems pretty good. Are there any books to help with training recall? You have now made my mind up on giving this a go. I imagine it won't be a bad idea of having him on a long line at this age with the adolescence stage pretty much upon us. I'm sure I'm gong to have plenty of questions on how to make sure that I get it all right once I get the whistle and anything else I need together.

[Londongirl]

I have Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson which is always highly recommended. Very similar to the Top Barks method, but with more detail about what NOT to do, which is invaluable! I came across her method on a labrador website. It covers everything you need to get started, and I followed the method here: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/train-a-puppy-or-dog-to-come/. I have the book as well as it gives more detail about the later stages. It can be a bit off-putting if you look at the later stages as it's a lot of work to proof the new recall and seems daunting when you've not started and have no recall at all! I'd say get started and enjoy the early stages, it's lot of fun! Then when it starts to be a bit of a slog at the end getting that recall locked down, come back here for some encouraging pom-pom waving. Just a few weeks ago I was here complaining that I thought Henry would never get off the long lead. I was wrong!

I have a couple of Acme whistles. They seem expensive for a bit of fluorescent plastic but they are great. Consistent tone and very easy to leave in your mouth, which is essential. More than once I've missed the opportunity to recall Henry in the time it took to get the whistle from my hand to my mouth.

[Briggo09]

That article is very good and seems like a good guide to doing the training, yeh I am planning to buy one of those whistles and the book of Amazon tonight. From reading that I have a quick question, did you continue using your original recall word in training alongside the whistle or did you simply ditch the word and go all in with the whistle? I'd imagine it's good to have both? Charlie's recall word 'come' isn't bad- like I said before, however I think it's now tainted due to a few months of slight mis use.

[Londongirl]

Good question! I still used 'come' in the early stages of training when you can't use the whistle at anytime when you're not 100% sure he's on his way back. You still need to call them, and the training seemed to help 'come' work better as well. Now I just shout his name and he comes so I've dropped the use of 'come' as a command. The difference with the whistle is when it becomes a conditioned response he will literally turn 180 degrees at full gallop without hesitation to come back to me. Even when his recall was good in the early months, the verbal command never had that power.

[Briggo09]

Thanks a lot. I will definitely start this! I really want to have a solid recall- this will open up a whole world of fun and freedom for Charlie as he gets older.

[Briggo09]

Sorry another quick question, for high value treats- what did you use? I have used cheese a fair bit but thinking about getting some chicken or something?

[Theo961]

It depends on your dog's taste really. Reese loves fish so best results are from anything fishy with him, lots of recipes on web to make healthy homemade training treats. If time limited he will also have chopped cheese, chicken , dried liver or occasionally chopped cocktail sausage but they are high in fat and salt and I also find I will eat most of them while chopping his up! 

[Briggo09]

Yeh I keep meaning to give him some fish to try... What sort do you go for usually? I know a friend who feeds his staffy sardines. Think I'm going to buy a dehydrator also as the same friend uses one with chicken breast to make homemade treats.

[EmmaRose]

Mine love liver cake, it's not the nicest to make (rather messy!) so I make up a batch and then chop into cubes and freeze.  Then just take a handful out when needed.  Here's a link to a recipe:
http://cleverdogcompany.com/liver-cake-recipe

[lescef]

We were also told to take a 'jackpot' with us and give for a really excellent recall. Don't take one out every day but enough to keep them on their toes that something really, really tasty might be presented.
I have taken a piece of raw chicken wing, cooked steak and salmon on our walks!

[Londongirl]

Our jackpot is a pouch of the cat's food! Horribly messy, I have to remember to bring hand wipes.  Must remember to do a jackpot again soon, for reinforcement. Henry loves cheese and roast chicken. If he sees the whistle and I offer him anything else, he starts snuffling my pockets looking for the good stuff. 

[Ambler54]

I have whistle trained Rosie and it has proved succesful, She will usually stop in Her tracks even if She is off on a very important scent mission.And It proved invaluable when I lost Her in the wooods.My fault, Rosie was right behind, nose on ground, two paths, I went down one presuming Rosie was with Me, turned around ,no sight of Her.Panic doesn't even begin to explain how I felt.She really does have a good nose,so I wondered if She would back track where we had been, but I started whistling.I can usually hear Her tag tinkling on Her collar but nothing except bird song, so I just stood exactly where We were last together and whistled and whistled and way away I could hear tinkling and frantic panting and along the path came this jet propelled dog.She was only gone about 5 minutes but She was obviously very upset, panting and Her tongue was on the floor( I was no better) so big cuddles all round, lots of treats for coming back but now I watch Her like a hawk and make sure if I go down a path that She knows exactly where I am. So its loads of treats, lots of praise every time She answers the whistle .

[Briggo09]

Sorry I'm replying a bit late I've had a busy couple of weeks. Have started the whistle training with Charlie today- bought myself a achme whistle, the book total recall and a magnetic treat bag, now in the process of making this whistle the best thing ever- Charlie approves after his second helping of roast chicken today  , have made up some liver treats and have some tinned sardines. Fingers crossed all goes to plan.