Author Topic: Resource Guarding  (Read 3520 times)

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Offline paulmlpss

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Resource Guarding
« on: July 13, 2016, 07:59:11 PM »
Hi all I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice. We have a Cocker Spaniel male and have owned him since about 12 weeks and last few months he has started resource guarding. He does it with anything he can pick up and then goes and sits in corner of lounge and growls if you go near him. He does it with his food too but im slowly training him on that and he is improving. I have brought the book called Mine and just waiting for it to arrive but was wondering if anyone else has had trouble with their Cocker? Forgot to mention he is Golden and we got him neutered around 11 months of age.

Hope you can help.
Thanks
Paul

Offline Markr64

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2016, 08:05:14 PM »
The one question I have is, has anything changed in the house? You do not mention what age he is now, which I am sure other will want to know. I have not had this issue with a cocker but I have with other breeds and I found it was due to us changing things in their live which brought on the guarding.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2016, 08:43:32 PM »
Humphrey isn't agressive and doesn't growl, at least he hasn't done yet, - but he does guard things. I believe it is something that does seem to be a "cocker" thing. I've always made him sit and wait for his food and he doesn't touch it until I've given him the ok. There have been several threads on this in the past and that book has also been recommended by several people but I'm sure someone with more advice will along soon. best of luck!

Offline paulmlpss

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 08:54:17 PM »
Sorry forgot to put he is about 13 months now. Can't think of anything that's changed. Have been reading alot on it and found it happens alot in cocker spaniels. Just worried as my lad 4 and scared he might bite him.

Offline hoover

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2016, 02:55:34 PM »
Yes, my dog is a resource guarder and was pretty much from day 1 of getting him.  We have managed things by making sure he doesn't generally have access to the items he guards.  This can also be tricky as these are the things that engage and entertain him, so admittedly, on certain occasions he is still allowed bones when we are pretty sure he will be completely undisturbed in the kitchen behind a baby gate. But then we would go through a set procedure to distract him by calling him to another room for food and separate him from the bone before throwing it away so that no guarding behaviour is evoked and he doesn't notice. We can see that actually, having items that he guards is a huge burden/ stressor to him, especially when he is tired... it's like he is thinking 'O I really want to go to sleep, but that bone is there, and if I don't guard it my whole world will collapse!' He is much happier when he is relieved of it after an hour or so of enjoying it.

With a dog that guards anything that can be a bit harder to see a hierarchy of value that we can clearly see with Ollie.  It is generally considered very impolite in the dog world to take anything out of their mouths - possession is ten tenths of the law to them(!), so I wouldn't be trying to correct him by trying to compel him to let go of whatever he has found - this will elevate the value of the item in his mind 'o well, if she wants it, I must have found something really good this time!'  The best way is to act like you couldn't care less what he has taken and then he will attribute less significance to it.  That, or perhaps swapping for treats..but this is something you may have to build up to depending on the level of his response... ideally you want to keep it below threshold, so if he starts tensing and sideways glancing when you are 2 meters away, then you should start throwing him treats from 3m away.  Gradually over time building up closeness  as he associates your presence with nice treats and begins to welcome it and keeping it under threshold of response, so that you can get closer and closer, sit next to him ad eventually swap what he is guarding for a treat- before giving what ever it is he is guarding right back again.   That way you build up trust..but it is important to not push things too fast.  This positive approach does often work well.

You can try that approach, and I think that is what the Mine book details in more rigour.  But to be honest sometimes they just need a break from the whole process and experience of guarding - we tried to test Ollie with this sort of approach and you are always in danger of reinforcing a guarding approach if you get it wrong or move too quickly..so whilst I would say use that approach if he already does have something he is guarding, don't go out of your way to contrive a situation regularly to test him as this can lead him to more stress and make the guarding more of a learned habit for him.

I would say don't get worked up about it or become angry, frustrated or forceful in your approach as this can escalate the situation and make an already tense dog snap. Try to get everyone who lives with the dog on the same page, and especially around a young child try to manage the situation.  I really sympathise with you and anyone else going through this with kids as I've said on this forum before.  Try to raise your child's awareness of when the dog is uncomfortable - think about the body language and the signs they give off, and stress to them they must not go near the dog in those situations.

It sounds like your dog has taken to a particular corner, so you can perhaps try to rearrange the furniture so that he does not access it in the same way to guard.  That might help to disrupt his habit...but it is very possible he will just start doing it elsewhere.  A behaviourist who sees your dog, setup, family and interactions will be best placed to help you.

Offline desthomas

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2016, 10:54:27 PM »

Offline Archie bean

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2016, 11:19:23 PM »
I echo everything Hoover has already said. If you read through my earliest posts you will see my struggles with learning to cope with guarder Archie. The book is a good place to start but be warned, it is quite a wordy read!

It's really important to find out what is the root cause and a good behaviourist would be able to spot small triggers that you might not notice.

Being as non-confrontational as possible is vital. Not showing that a guarded item is important to you is hard to do but really helps. I used to actually praise Archie for picking things up and then walked away, encouraging him to fetch it for a biscuit. We did lots of work on fetch in our daily training but he only ever got his favourite biccy if he willingly gave me a guarded object, or better an object that he had the potential to guard but then didn't. Him giving an item up willingly as opposed to me taking it from him was the key to managing things.

It was hard work, and took a long time but he is now a reformed character. Not 100% perfect, the possibility of him guarding will always be there and I am always careful with what situations I put him in, but he is pretty much under control.

Offline Ben's mum

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2016, 11:25:26 PM »
Lots of us on here have guardy spaniels  :D. Harry has always guarded food and toys, so we feed him in a different room so he has space to eat and no need to guard. We don't have toys out, and we avoid having any treats that he will guard. 

Bizarrely at 6 he has just started to guard socks  :dunno:  we try to swop for something of higher value and this usually works. Sometimes he gets clever and tries to grab the treat and keep the sock in his mouth whilst growling at us, not easy  :005:  in that situation I go and open the fridge door and find some ham or cheese, he can't resist the sound of the fridge opening and I always reward him if he comes in the kitchen and leaves what he was guarding.   Mine is an excellent book, I hope it helps


Offline phoenix

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2016, 11:42:56 PM »
Another guarder mum here. Right from his arrival . Thanks to Col, I survived tears and torment, threatened 'me or the dog situations', etc. And it got better.
Don't make an issue of it. Walk away and he'll leave it. Swopping never worked for us.  Walk away, close the door of the room, and he' ll be so, so worried.
The hardest part is to get your family to act the right way.  Also, avoid conflict, eg. never leave bags on the floor, or anything else he guard.
I bought Mine as well. It is written for trainers and is very detailed, step by step.  It is vey enlightening , but heavy going. 
Cockers are working dogs, very bright.  Very sensitive. Give them as much brain work as possible.
 
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.

Offline Archie bean

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2016, 12:07:51 AM »

The hardest part is to get your family to act the right way.  Also, avoid conflict, eg. never leave bags on the floor, or anything else he guard.
 

Absolutely this! Not just family. Friends and all visitors to the house have to be warned and primed. Baby gates can be invaluable to keep trouble at bay!  Getting other people to understand and follow your instructions can be really hard. My worst nightmare used to be ball throwers on walks. My polite request for them to not throw a ball until Archie was safely on a lead soooo often fell on deaf ears. Then if he picked up the ball (sometimes thrown directly to him, seemingly for a laugh) said owners refused to ignore it and walk away and instead gave me a mouthful of "I'll get it off him, you need to show him who's the boss"  >:D

Offline lescef

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2016, 10:14:52 AM »
I have a couple of guarders here. Maddie goes for socks and now the grandson's soft toys. But her guarding seems to be because she's found it's a good way of getting a high value treat! Bramble on the other hand, guards me, food and toys from Maddie and grandson.
I agree with the advice given and if you still struggle get a positive behaviourist to help. It is possible to manage it well.
I have the tidiest house as nothing is left on the floor!
I always find that Bramble is more guardy before and after meals and when she is generally excited.
So calmness and talking softly really helps. She has got better as she's got older (now 4). When she was younger she would even guard the washing machine when their blankets were in there! :005:
Lesley, Maddie and Bramble

Offline paulmlpss

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2016, 02:28:29 PM »
Yes socks is one of his favorite things at moment. I was just trying to train him to drop it for some cheese and then give him the sock back afterwards. Just guess I got to take it slow and step by step. He bit my son a month ago when camping as he was asleep and he touched him. He didnt bite him properly and let go as he realised it was wrong. Just find it a bit scary especially with my son being around him. All other times hes a great dog and loves having a fuss and licking your ears lol.

 At the moment he has a crate in the kitchen where he sleeps overnight and when we are out and also a large dog pillow in the corner of the lounge. I have noticed he has started guarding his beds a bit and gives you the eyes when you walk past and sometimes the odd little growl. Do you think I should remove the bed in the lounge so he doesn't guard that area? I have started throwing treats as I walk past so he realises its a good thing me getting near.

Thanks for all your replies really appreciate it.

Offline hoover

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2016, 06:10:25 PM »
I think moving the beds/ changing things around a bit or even replacing the beds and putting them in different locations (or no bed at all in the livingroom if it is comfortable enough and a side table where his former spot was) might help as it sounds like he has developed a habit, and if you disrupt all the previous associations by for eg. preventing access, changing the sight and smell of his old bed then it might help shift him out of it.  He will probably have a tendency to guard new locations that he settles on but at least then you can start early on the preventative work by building up the positive associations with your presence nearby immediately.

After changing the physical landscape you could also perhaps try keeping a long lead on him, and train him with the word 'off' and treats so that he gets up from whatever location he is on and comes to you.  If he doesn't come you can pull gently on the long lead to encourage him with an enthusiastic tone and reward him again with the treat when he comes to you.  All the time you would be trying to reinforce that pairing of the word 'off',  the action of him moving away, and the treat and verbal praise.  Try to avoid repeating it too much without him following up with moving as he will learn to ignore the command.  This might help you to be able to move him away from areas he starts to guard and prevent him from becoming too entrenched in one position and just be a gentle reminder of your authority over locations in the house.

By the way, he's a beautiful dog!

Offline lescef

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2016, 06:39:45 PM »
I think you've probably realised not to let your son disturb him when he's asleep.  My son went and poked his face at our previous cocker, who swiftly nipped his nose.
Even now, if I have to move the dogs I speak to them to make sure they're awake before I actually touch them.
Lesley, Maddie and Bramble

Offline paulmlpss

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2016, 07:22:59 PM »
Just got back from camping and he seemed worse there. Had to feed him his food from hand at times as he would just guard his bowl all the time. One way was to get his lead and take him for quick walk whilst Mrs removed his bowl when gone.

 Now back home he is bit mardy and guarding even more. Got the mine book now and tried first step of dropping treats in his bowl. He growls at me and then eats cheese I drop in his bowl and I walk off. I can't get too close maybe 2 to 3 foot away. Did it about 20 times and then in the end he was guarding his empty bowl lol. It's quite scary how the dog I have known for last year has started to change and worried about him being round my son.