Author Topic: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.  (Read 5718 times)

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Offline Londongirl

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Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« on: August 30, 2016, 11:26:51 AM »
Just posting for some moral support really. I know what I have to do, and I know we'll get there eventually. But once again I am struggling with Henry's recall.

It's the age old spaniel problem - when he gets sight of a squirrel his ears just shut down and he's off, running. Same with pigeons and I'm really worried he'll run out of the park after a bird one of these days.

I worked really hard at proofing his recall, having him on the long line and exposing him to all these distractions while whistle training. For a few months he was solid, would turn back to me even when at full pelt. Then there were one or two occasions when he hesitated. Then the odd occasion when he didn't come straight back. And so the deterioration set in. I made sure to vary his rewards and give occasional jackpots. I carried on reinforcing when he was off the long line and made sure to carry on giving some whistles when he was already on his way to ensure success was reinforced. I really feel like I did everything by the book. But even so, the whistle no longer works.

There are situations where his recall is very good, such as when we are in the woods, so I don't want to keep him on the lead all the time as I worry he'll lose what recall he has. It's just in open spaces where there are things to chase. I usually get him back on the lead before we hit those spaces, but it's boring for both of us.

So I'll start again. I think I'll go right back to basics and start whistle training again at home. He's TERRIBLE at coming in from the garden when called (as he's usually barking at the damned squirrels that sit on the fence and taunt him) so maybe I'll start with that.

I do wonder if I should start with a new whistle pattern or stick to the old one.

Sigh.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline Patp

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2016, 12:19:31 PM »
I am sure somebody will be along soon with some solid advice, but when I went to a trainer he said to stick to the same thing for the whistle eg one short peep for stop then 3 or 4 for come back.  He also said to not blow the whistle hard for the first command as you have nowhere to go if you are blowing at your loudest first time (hope that makes sense)

In the past as well I varied it from just calling her back and giving her lots of fuss or the return on the whistle is high value food.

Good luck!



Offline Markr64

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2016, 12:23:51 PM »
When we started recall with Dexter we just got him to sit in front of us and gave the command and gave him a treat and repeated this every 10 seconds. Then we done it from a small distance and worked our way up. We used a high value reward every time and also done the odd jackpot.

His recall is good but not stunning as he will totally ignore us sometimes when there is a squirrel or bird that is far more interesting than a nice little treat. It is part of having a Spaniel I am told but he is good most of the time now.

I think you will just have to keep trying and don't be frightened in taking a step back to the long lead as it may be needed.

Offline AlanT

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2016, 02:09:33 PM »
I have good recall almost all the time. But these dogs are clever and opinionated. There comes a time when mine just decides he will go and "do something". Mostly he will then just do it.

It's not that he does not know, he just makes a decision. I don't see how any of the usual training will overcome this.

Here is an example. We go to the Heartwood Forest. He knows it well. There is an old clay-pit hole and he rolls his ball into it and retrieves. Favourite game!

But its early morning and cold under the trees and so I turn left so as to follow a sunny path.
I release him but pretty soon he turns around and runs back to the junction.

He sits and waits for for me. I call and there is a standoff. Then come a few loud barks. I stand-still and call.
He clears off to the pit.

I follow and we roll ball. The dog has trained me to follow when he calls.
So we go off lead only in places where you can't get into much trouble.

I know, I know!

Offline Blueberry

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2016, 03:23:27 PM »
Ha!  One of the things I have realised in my few short but glorious weeks of Cocker ownership is that I'm the one being trained, not Blue.   :huh:

Offline Rhodri0311

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2016, 03:24:01 PM »
I'm so glad I'm not the only one having problems! Rhodri is coming up to ten months and since we've returned from holidays, his recall had been pretty dire. His main distraction at the moment is water. We take him regularly to the nearby sand dunes and there is a large green area where we always play ball. He'll play really well, even ignoring other dogs until something stirs in him and he takes off to the nearby pool and no amount of calling or whistling will bring him back. By the time we reach him at the pool, he's had a good swim so ready to come out!

You have my sympathy and I will be watching this thread for some advice!

Offline AlanT

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2016, 05:25:13 PM »
Ain't no way to keep my Cocker out of water. Will swim for a hour in February unless I catch him.

Likes to dive for big rocks but I'm discouraging this because I am worried about broken teeth.
I am using a sinking ball on a line. This is proving very popular.

I used a golf-ball for recall training when he was a puppy. Worked well until he grew up and we went walking on golf-courses. Pretty soon we had 50 golf-balls.

Try to have a sense of humour.


Offline Londongirl

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2016, 06:08:45 PM »
Oh Lordy, you guys are not filling me with confidence here!  :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline Pearly

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2016, 07:25:26 PM »
If you remember, Coral is a few months older and working through similar stages! At 18 months old she was trying really hard to stop herself from running off and most of the time did..........unless there's something to chase!

Progress from the last update is that The weekend before the bank holiday she took part in a scurry competition and was completely rubbish!  :005:  However, she did retrieve and hunted beautifully, recalling on the whistle but scurries are supposed to be high-speed retrieve games  :lol2:  I found it amusing simply because she did what I've been training her to do for a year - hunt for a dummy and bring it back, which she did (until he hedgrow looked more interesting for about a minute and then came back  :shades:)

She still chases.  That's a work in progress and will take a long time to embed with Coral but to be fair, at 19 months old that's a very big ask for a working cocker spaniel of trials lines.  It would be easy to give up and "live with where we are" but I have plans for this puppy!  She's enrolled on an agility course from October and in the meantime I will keep (positively) reinforcing brakes  ;)

Coral stops on a pin now - each and every time I blow the whistle with the exception of mid flight after a cat.....or other small furry creature, that will come with maturity and perseverence.  At every opportunity I use the stop whistle, before food - mid way to food - out walking to heel, before getting out of the car etc..........she does run in on some thrown balls/dummy's which she didn't do as a younger phase 2 pup but does now (not helped by my neighbour playing ball with her  ph34r) we are now working on steadiness to thrown items which is all part of stopping the chasing.

The same weekend as the scurry competition we attended the last of the Gundog training "summer school" - hunting in woodland, stopping on a starting pistol and a retrieve - out of 11 dogs running, Coral was placed second best (she was a bit excitable on the first firing of the pistol).  The wood was full of rabbits and squirrels but Coral was far too interested in me and the game she was playing......

So yes, there is hope but it's a long haul!  I was told at the start of the year that dogs develop in three stages: puppy, aka the cockerdile stage followed by a hint of the nice dog your pup will be before the teenage phase kicks in......in Coral's case that been the best part of 10 months! We are now starting the third phase of maturing into an adult, another hint of the future dog followed by sheer battle of wills as they become fully grown/mature.......hence starting agility as it will bring in more obedience!

My best advice is to keep doing what you are but up the level of mind training and reward with exercise off lead - get some "brakes" the more you practice the more it becomes intrinsic and if all else fails, find a Gundog trainer with a rabbit pen

Jayne
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Offline Finvarra

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2016, 07:30:05 PM »
Dylan has been getting better at coming back, he still has to,say hello to other dogs and people when off lead, he goes up to them and sits for a fuss, and then he comes back, so much better there. But when he gets a scent he is off. Yesterday when going to the car for a walk he ran up the drive and down the lane, and would not come back. Totally ignored calls and the whistle. Finally ran back towards us, then past and back the other way! Little blighter. >:D >:D Finally caught him up just before the road. It's like you go some steps,forward and think how much he's improving, and then it all,goes,out of the window.

Lesley and Dylan
Remembering All the dogs of my life, especially Milo

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2016, 09:27:10 PM »
...but isn't it just SOOOOOO reassuring to know we're not on our own? Whenever  we're standing there exasperated, waiting for our little angels to acknowledge that we're still there, we can take comfort that another  one of us is is standing somewhere else feeling just the same!!!!
(Just had to walk with Humphrey through the town, forget loose lead, forget heel, NIGHTMARE!!!) 😂😂

Offline Londongirl

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2016, 10:02:07 PM »
I was watching a lady with a little terrier type of dog. She was clearly training his recall and he came galloping back EVERY TIME. while Henry plodded beside me on his lead, exhausted by his chasing shenanigans.

Onwards and upwards, as they say!
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline sweetpj

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2016, 10:51:17 PM »
I have the same problem with Smudge LG some days brill some days not good as soon as he smells something the recall goes out of the window. I just think perseverance and patience is the key they are still youngsters, that's what I tell myself anyway hope you are both ok  :D

Offline Londongirl

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2016, 08:28:48 AM »
Thanks for all the replies, guys. It IS good to know they are all pretty much the same, the little rotters!

Jayne - the training you are doing with Coral sounds utterly amazing but so far removed from my life with a daft show cocker in suburban London! This forum has given me a huge insight into the life of working dogs and the dedication that goes into training them, but I'm sometimes left feeling woefully inadequate when I just happy when Henry sits as he's told.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline Pearly

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Re: Recall training - starting over again AGAIN.
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2016, 08:47:14 AM »
Thanks for all the replies, guys. It IS good to know they are all pretty much the same, the little rotters!

Jayne - the training you are doing with Coral sounds utterly amazing but so far removed from my life with a daft show cocker in suburban London! This forum has given me a huge insight into the life of working dogs and the dedication that goes into training them, but I'm sometimes left feeling woefully inadequate when I just happy when Henry sits as he's told.

I was exactly the same with with my show type (Pearl) it took a very long time for the recall to fully embed and to be fair, she didn't have any chase instinct until Coral arrived.......oh and the last drive of the last day of last season when she suddenly realised what all the other dogs were looking for  ph34r until then, she was just on a walk through dense undergrowth  :lol2:

Coral has been a whole new learning curve.  Think pretty pony club v high speed international show jumper.  I have no choice but to put the hours in with her - to not do so would be irresponsible.  The real challenge is that I didn't have many coping strategies or techniques as it was all new to me!

I do see a difference in Coral each day now.  She's currently lying on he floor, next to Pearl, at my feet.  It's breakfast time  ;)