Night time toileting. Help needed please!!

[Lulabear]

Hi there. Cooper is 14 weeks old and doing well but one month on and having now returned to work (3 days a at home 2 days my lovely doggy day care lady) I'm now really struggling over my choice to wake up at nights to toilet train!
The breeder had used paper in his pen but I set him up with a crate within a pen with toilet pads but the baby monitor on to try to catch him to take him outside at night to toilet.  He's never whined but scrapes the crate so it rattles. I've been thinking that's fair enough but feeling super tired of build up of broken nights...
For the first couple of weeks it was 1am ish and then 5 am ish. Two weeks of that killer!!  I discovered if I brought his dinner to 5 pm and he drank latest 7pm then he'd zonk out by 9pm I'd last til 10.30 for last wee and I was hoping we'd get him to anything with a 6 in it!! But still doing 4 am wees... 
My husband says we could be leaving him to wee on the paper and set 6.30 alarm and turn off baby monitors but I'm not sure if I can do it!!
Is it too late to turn back the clock and return to paper toileting at night?!  Should I just crack on with the 4 am's? And if I leave him and he dies soul on the pads, don't they end up getting covered in it (if it's pooh) when they're scampering to get out?!    Not sure what to do now but feeling very exhausted...  Any opinions really welcome! 

[Blueberry]

It is exhausting, isn't it?  I totally empathise. 
Blue is 21 weeks and can still only 'hold it' for about 6 hours maximum, so if my husband lets him out at 11, I am woken by him howling around 5am, but if husband manages to hang on til midnight for the last wee, Blue can get through until 6am.
We try to restrict his drinking of water from after his evening meal, but I feel bad about that if he is obviously thirsty - especially after his evening walkies..
Last week I thought we'd cracked it, 6.20am twice in a row, (woohoo!  A lie in!) but this week we are back to 5.30 - 5.45.
Re the toileting pads, if Blue soiled his, he always  trod in it and spread it about.  Clearing that up first thing every morning was not one of the pleasures of puppy ownership I had anticipated and, on balance, I preferred to get up and take him out.

[Markr64]

In a few months you will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about, you do what suits you and your puppy best. They are all different and grow at different rates, so some have bigger bladders and some have smaller. Routine is the key and to get them into one and then start to stretch it out in small increments. I have done this with all my dogs and my only cocker who soon got the idea as they are clever little devils. 

[Ambler54]

Rosie took ages, and I mean ages, to go through the night and for weeks I was getting up at 5 am  to let Her out.Then We would curl up on the settee and have a cuddle until the alarm went off.Slowly I moved the time of getting up to our normal time.She had upset tums, which meant nights of sleeping all night downstairs with Her and it did seem as if I would never have a full nights sleep ever again.Now at 10 months its like having a teenager in the house, She doesnt want to know about getting up until after 7 and breakfast is a no no until at least 11 . That is until We go away in the campervan...up with the birds, and the morning wee is so much more exciting when you are in a field of rabbits.

[Londongirl]

They do get there eventually. We VERY slowly pushed Henry's getting up time by leaving it a few minutes more each time, once we knew he could hold it long enough. Now he is grumpy if he's woken before 8, and breakfast is at 11. AND he's in his crate and sparked out for the night by 8:30. Your little one is still a baby, just keep going.

[bizzylizzy]

I'm going to be be controverial  here and I know it goes against all the rules of toilet raining but I could never bring myself to withold water and Humphrey has always had access to his water bowl, day and night. I don't honestly don't think it makes any difference to the amount of times they need the loo in the night but if they are desperate for a drink they'll cry aswell!!
It WILL get better, I promise, they all get there in the end but as Mark has already said, routine is the key. Hang on in there, by Christmas it'll all be behind you!! 

[Ambler54]

Thats how I felt.They are just babies .I really enjoyed my ( very) early morning cuddles , sleeping with my bundle of fur. If I come downstairs early for some reason even now Rosie will still jump onto the settee and wait for cuddle time.But , just like babies, that time passed very quick , before you know it Cooper will be going through the night.I didnt do the middle of the night letting out for a wee as I Sort of thought that was setting a pattern ,just mopped up the paper in the morning and to be fair Rosie rarely trod in anything. Although sometimes if She pooed the smell woke me, I just got up, didnt speak to Her, rolled up the paper ,put it outside, put down more paper and went back to bed. Could almost do it in my sleep . And there was always water down for Her. I did try jigging Her tea time around but it didnt seem to make much difference.Hang in there, a nights sleep isnt that far away.

[Markr64]

I also agree that taking the water away is not a great idea, think about some of the hot nights we have had and a small puppy will quickly dehydrate so I have never left any dog with no water. Others may disagree but we are all different and have different views. Do what suits your puppy! 

[Lulabear]

Thanks to you all. Will soldier on!
My husband wants to record me saying I won't ask for a puppy again!
Cooper doesn't seem to want to drink anything past 7pm but I'll leave water out.
I do enjoy him. He's so cute and a wonderful character just don't remember it being so tiring even having done it 3 times before!!  Getting me in training for grandchildren!