Just been over an hour on the phone - UPDATED

[Coco]

To a breeder with a golden bitch. He was a wealth of information and just fantastic. Before I even got a word in after saying I was calling about the pups he asked me did I want to work them, what my situation was etc, he bread for himself not the market etc he went through the pedigree and spoke for over 20 mins each on both the Sire (which he knows not ownes) and Dam and discussed working cockers and other working breeds, pedigrees etc. The Sire is due to be trailed and he is keeping two from the litter back as trail prospects though the Mum he says isn't quite there for trailing but retrieves and picks up amazingly. (I say this in terms of why the litter was bread)

The only issue is that they are not tested 

What do you think?  I feel in all other aspects they sound perfect.

[Cazzie]

The dreaded working cocker health testing topic again. I look forward to reading the replies 

Edited to add: What were his comments with regards to health tests 

[Coco]

Same old. He tested his Labs etc but there is no call for it in cockers, not by KC nor people he speaks to. Plus he's never come across a case of PRA in cockers and or really any other genetic health issues.

He is quite old school I must say, not to his detrement as such but I wouldn't exactly call him progressive, more the here and now.

I know it's old ground, but this is crunch time!! You can PM if you like on either view as I know this can get heated.
I just need educated opinions. I don't know enough about it, the risks etc to know how big of a risk it is to take on an untested working cocker.

In fact i'm going to start a poll.

[Cazzie]

Your like me, know very little about it and tbh if I were looking for another working cocker id be in exactly the same quandry you are in as they are only if that a handful of working cocker breeders that do the testing and those breeders may not have what your looking for and I certainly wouldnt like to have such a limited choice. I certainly know that I would not touch a Lab without its parents being health tested so why not the same for the working cockers  Is it because the Labs have had dreadful hip problems in the past and they have HAD to do something about it, but have working cockers have been lucky up till now  I dont know 

Someone tried to make a fool of me because of my concerns for health testing in working cockers accusing me of appearing to be an expert  but as someone involved with all breeds of dogs I have a genuine concern for ALL dogs health and hearing stories of some sad cases then I think we should all know and hear about it 

After reading certain articles etc etc then I would say not to touch a working cocker (or any other breed) without health tests but I am NO expert and can only go on advice and information supplied by thise in the know including vets 

I hope you do what you think is best although its hard when the decision is soley yours. Id maybe do a bit more research like I did and speak to those in the know and decide from then Sorry not much use really 

[Cob-Web]

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that all the while people continue to buy pups from untested litters, then *old school* breeders will continue to breed without testing 

The breeder in question sounds as if he tries to find experienced homes for his pups, rather than just sell to the first person who comes along.  He won't begin testing his bitches until he discovers that he cannot find an appropriate home for his puppies unless they are tested.

IMO, it doesn't matter if the risk of PRA in working cockers is very high, or very low, there is still a risk, so they should be tested, because testing eliminates ANY risk at all  I don't understand why any breeder would hesitate, there are so many risks associated with breeding, that removing one risk completely is a good thing, isn't it?   

[Helen]

I think the majority of us here have untested working cockers, and it's only been in the last couple of years that the pressure to health test has started - the wave of pressure to test is not going to be from people like us refusing to buy the pups, it will be from other breeders and the big name kennels actually converting to testing that will turn the tide, and sadly, from cases of PRA becoming known.

My intention is to have Jarv tested, and I admit, I would almost definitely buy another one from his breeder even if untested.

I wouldn't however, buy a pup with certain lines as I am concerned about popular sire syndrome and am pretty sure there will be some backlash healthwise along the way soon with some of the FT CH's siring thousands of pups in the manner they are....

Coco, I think you are armed with enough information to make your own decisions    This is not an ideal world and realistically there are very few working cockers out there tested - this is changing but not quickly   

[Coco]

Well, I kept phoning around and I have found a pup, coincidently about 20 miles away that comes from Optigen tested sire and on Mum's sire G sire. Unfortunatly it's not red/golden as I was looking for but it from some of my fave working cockers.
I called the lady and we chatted and she said, I wish you'ld have called earlier as we have a wating list of sorts but she took my number just in case after she'd had people to look aat the end of the month. Then she called back later and said she's been thinking about us all day and discussed it with her hubby and felt she'd really like one of her pups to come to us so she'd be prepared to let us look first!       
There are 4 bitches, 2 brown, 2 black 

[Cazzie]

Thats good news 

[hollyd443]

Great News! Let us know how you get on! 

[Beth]

Oooooh Looking forward to cute poopy pics.

[KellyS]

I agree with Rachels comments... Thats great news about the pups, I would always go for a tested litter over colour, good luck hope you get on ok, let us know

[kalem]

Aaaaw good luck, what colour are you going for black or brown? 

[Coco]

I'm not sure i'll definatley have one but... since it's not the golden I was initally thinking of I really don't mind. Perhaps a pair or livers, it'll totally dependon the pups. 

[Cazzie]

I'm not sure i'll definatley have one but... since it's not the golden I was initally thinking of I really don't mind. Perhaps a pair or livers, it'll totally dependon the pups. 

Liver would be my choice, spent an age with a stunning litter of liver cocker pups the other day and its a beautiful colour 

[Coco]

Just out of interest...
...One of the breeders said if they had a litter of Liver bitches they'd have sold them twice over in the first week 
Apperently there is a real 'trend' for them.