What's 'silver'? and what colour were these working cockers?

[happydog]

Question 1.
Looking through Fern's pedigree and see that one of her GG grandparents , Ginger of Gwibernant's (dam of FTCH Rhu of Migdale-Liver/white and Cimerv Ceiliog Brith-liver) colour is listed as 'silver' . Has anyone a picture of a 'silver' working cocker? I would love to know what she looked like.

Question 2.
Please can anyone help with the colours of the following?:

Simon of Kenstaff
Kneveton Roller
Flyhall Shandy
Jordieland Blond Boy
Broombank Bounce
Southfield Sam
Jasper of Gwibernant
Imp of Gwibernant
Snoad Swallowtail
Headland Cinnamon Sedge
Housty Mayfly
Morborne Till
Beideston Sprite
Terror of Templebar
Flyhall Jill
Tina of Linswell

Thank you 

[emilyjw]

Found this on the cocker spaniel club website -

"Breeders found that better results in terms of colour and markings could be achieved if they focused on keeping the solid markings and the roaned markings separate. Unusual colours, markings and patterns were viewed with the great suspicion that a misalliance with a dog of another or mixed breed must have occurred. No doubt rare colours like sable and the silver ash colour we associate with the Weimaraner today, occurred and were quietly disposed of at birth, even though these were in fact probably pure bred. The tan masking that we accept today, both in solid colours and particolours, was also viewed with great suspicion, that somewhere hound blood had crept into their lines. Many breeders also disposed of these at birth. "

[spanielcrazy]

Educated guess says Jordieland Blond Boy is a golden 

Not sure but I think Jasper of Gwibernant is a liver

[Beth]

I did a quick google, and silver in american cockers looks like a really pale golden to me.



but look what i came across on my travels



Cocker x weim who "we may use to breed miniature silver labs, her puppies should look just like silver labs and she carries the silver factor"

Maybe i'm being dim but how the hell do you get a "lab" out of one of them?

[september]

I suppose it means looks wise.  I guess if a cocker had short fur all over it might look a little like a small lab, I guess if you add weimeraner thats what happens??? and how could you guarantee that the puppies would have the silvery weim fur! God some people shouldn't be allowed to think.

crazy! and thats not a very attractive looking dog! my first though was WTF!!!

[EmmaA]

It's cross eyed for a start.
Some people should be drowned or shot and definitely not allowed the freedom of thought 

[Tori]

When i worked at the vets one of the clients had just imported a silver lab from america, looked like a 'normal' lab but smaller and alot paler than a weimarener

[Karma]

Looking at the Cocker Spaniel Club webpage, they say

"Unusual colours, markings and patterns were viewed with the great suspicion that a misalliance with a dog of another or mixed breed must have occurred. No doubt rare colours like sable and the silver ash colour we associate with the Weimaraner today, occurred and were quietly disposed of at birth, even though these were in fact probably pure bred. The tan masking that we accept today, both in solid colours and particolours, was also viewed with great suspicion, that somewhere hound blood had crept into their lines. Many breeders also disposed of these at birth."

So it sounds like silver used to be a colour that cropped up... poor wee pups...  

And I guess some eedjit has read the "silver ash colour we associate with the Weimaraner" and thought they'd try and turn back time by using a Weimaraner...    

[Karma]

Good grief - Wikipedia reliably informs people that English Cocker Spaniels come in the following colours....

"The colours in the breed consist of black, black and tan, black and white, black white and tan, blue roan, blue tick, blue roan and tan, silver, chocolate, chocolate and tan, chocolate and white, chocolate white and tan, chocolate roan, chocolate roan and tan, sable, copper red, red, gold,buff, red roan, red and white, apricot, orange, orange and white, orange roan, lemon, lemon and white, lemon roan."

So looks like there is a "Silver" - along with a "Buff" and "Apricot" - but no Livers, sorry folks!!

[Helen]

Good grief - Wikipedia reliably informs people that English Cocker Spaniels come in the following colours....

"The colours in the breed consist of black, black and tan, black and white, black white and tan, blue roan, blue tick, blue roan and tan, silver, chocolate, chocolate and tan, chocolate and white, chocolate white and tan, chocolate roan, chocolate roan and tan, sable, copper red, red, gold,buff, red roan, red and white, apricot, orange, orange and white, orange roan, lemon, lemon and white, lemon roan."

So looks like there is a "Silver" - along with a "Buff" and "Apricot" - but no Livers, sorry folks!!

just goes to show what a load of Bow Locks Wikipedia is 

[Cob-Web]

Good grief - Wikipedia reliably informs people that English Cocker Spaniels come in the following colours....

"The colours in the breed consist of black, black and tan, black and white, black white and tan, blue roan, blue tick, blue roan and tan, silver, chocolate, chocolate and tan, chocolate and white, chocolate white and tan, chocolate roan, chocolate roan and tan, sable, copper red, red, gold,buff, red roan, red and white, apricot, orange, orange and white, orange roan, lemon, lemon and white, lemon roan."

So looks like there is a "Silver" - along with a "Buff" and "Apricot" - but no Livers, sorry folks!!

just goes to show what a load of Bow Locks Wikipedia is 

   Definitely an unconfirmed source that requires corroboration to be believed 
My boss tried to reference using Wiki in his Masters dissertation - funnily enough his tutors weren't amused   

The nice thing about Wiki is that we could edit it, of course.....

[september]

there is no liver but there is chocolate so its obviously done by a fashioanable cocker owner!!!

[*jean*]

ginger of gwibernants parents were ardoon wilgo a full brother of speckle of ardoon she was liver roan so chances are he was too. ardoon romper's (gingers mother) father (FTCH templebar blackie) was black and her mother (speckle) liver roan
 ardoon wilgos parents tireragh silver starlight  (sire) was golden  ( show type) his mother was coleen of elan .?colour tho her parents swift of elan sire was blue roan and dam jet of elan was black
templebar blackies dam was jet of elan (black) and sire wilfred of cromlix (black and white.)

I reckon the silver is pale lemon.
I think coleen of elan most likely was a  roan she certainley carried the gene as the sire (T silver starlight )was a  solid golden show type. ( there is a chance he carried the gene too if they bred show solids to particolours then) his father was red he was SH CH sixshot otto the owl
 his dam tireragh harvest moon ? colour.
 whew bit muddled . ill have a hunt through my lots pedigrees  to see if I can dig out any more.

[happydog]

  Wow Jean. Impressive  . Thank you.
So Ginger of Gwibernants sire and dam were half sister and brother? How can that be, as reading your post they have different Sire and Dam (probably not reading it right) and Ardoon Wilgo was half show half worker?

[*jean*]

  Wow Jean. Impressive  . Thank you.
So Ginger of Gwibernants sire and dam were half sister and brother? How can that be, as reading your post they have different Sire and Dam (probably not reading it right) and Ardoon Wilgo was half show half worker?

ive boobed     it was  that wilgo sister speckle is also   rompers mother . not half brother sister.. eek complicated. id need to write it out on paper. its an uncle to niece isnt it? wheres the gin?