Author Topic: Barking device from PAH  (Read 2152 times)

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Offline ludo

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Barking device from PAH
« on: December 27, 2008, 11:11:15 PM »
Curious about a posting on here recommending a device from PAH which emits an ultrasonic sound which is meant to stop dogs from barking ... is this an aversive method of training?  How might it affect the dogs behaviour in other situations where they would naturally bark  :shades:
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Offline Joules

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2008, 09:18:30 AM »
Yes, they are an aversive  :-\  I asked the same question a year ago, see thread here:

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=37404.0

By all accounts, they do not work but I have discovered that there is no quick fix for an annoying barking dog  ::) >:(  Coco is better than she was in some situations but she is still an extremely barky dog so I just find other ways to manage it.  :-\

Good luck whatever you try - I know how frustrating it is to have a dog that just will not shut up!!  >:D
Julie and Watson

Offline Top Barks

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2008, 09:31:26 AM »
They are only aversive if your dog finds the noise unpleasant.
Dogs bark for a reason and all to often dogs learn to bark through these devices as the fear or frustration they are experiencing outweighs the aversive stimulus of the sound?
Have you tried capturing a quiet response from Dax, what situations does he bark?
If he does not respond to you in this situation then he is to stimulated and reactive to something else in his environment.
The one thing the collar might do is interupt the behaviour for a time but unless Dax finds the sound soooo unpleasant he will not stop barking for long.
You might be lucky and use it once and get a miracle cure or it could go the other way and make him worse.
You might need to use it in all manner of situations and who knows what connections Dax may form.
Gadgets like this are just to risky in my eyes.

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline ludo

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2008, 01:28:58 PM »
Thanks for answering my question  ;)  I have a friend up the road who has a samoyed - they like each other and play in the street when they meet up  :005:  He recognises Polo's bark (and Polo barks when he comes out of the house) and barks back - if I put my hand up and say quiet; Dax settles down fairly quickly  :blink:  He also barks when someone is at the front door.  :blink: When he knows I have gone to 'investigate' and tell him quiet its ok; he settles down as a rule.  The other time he will bark is when he knows we are going to leave him for a while - but I can usually settle him with a Tellington T touch mini massage on his chest area and by putting the blinds down in the kitchen :blink:  He seems to relax then and goes to sleep.   :angel:

But he hates bin day!!  So on Tuesday he is more unsettled and barks at intervals because he hates the noise of the carts so its harder work to settle him down on those days and we are working on that. He is as quiet as a dormouse the rest of the time  :005:

I wouldn't use the gadgets myself but wondered if they were aversive because it seems they work on the principle that the dog won't like the sound.   ;)
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Offline Joules

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2008, 02:19:45 PM »
Sounds like you and Dax are doing great already.  :D

With the bin problem - Mark (Topbarks) did a thread sometime ago about how he got his boys desensitised to fireworks by rewarding them with a squirt of Primula when they heard the bangs.  Can't find the thread now but perhaps you could try the same method to get Dax to calm down when the binmen come.  ;)
Julie and Watson

Offline Top Barks

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2008, 02:24:47 PM »
Sounds like you and Dax are doing great already.  :D

With the bin problem - Mark (Topbarks) did a thread sometime ago about how he got his boys desensitised to fireworks by rewarding them with a squirt of Primula when they heard the bangs.  Can't find the thread now but perhaps you could try the same method to get Dax to calm down when the binmen come.  ;)

Has really helped Douglas with the hoover as well, he's not perfect but at least now he does not head for the hills when you turn it on.
I have even had him touch the Hoover with his nose (with it on which is a considerable achievement for him.
I have been working on this for a couple of years so changing how a dog feels when it is afraid of something can be a slow process I'm afraid.

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline ludo

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2008, 07:12:05 PM »
Sounds like you and Dax are doing great already.  :D

With the bin problem - Mark (Topbarks) did a thread sometime ago about how he got his boys desensitised to fireworks by rewarding them with a squirt of Primula when they heard the bangs.  Can't find the thread now but perhaps you could try the same method to get Dax to calm down when the binmen come.  ;)

Has really helped Douglas with the hoover as well, he's not perfect but at least now he does not head for the hills when you turn it on.
I have even had him touch the Hoover with his nose (with it on which is a considerable achievement for him.

I have been working on this for a couple of years so changing how a dog feels when it is afraid of something can be a slow process I'm afraid.


Thanks for that ... its worth a go ... I don't mind if things take a while ...  goes to show you've got to go at your dogs pace really rather than look for a quick fix  ;)
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Offline Joules

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2008, 08:10:08 PM »
Have found Mark's thread about the fireworks!  ;)

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=35802.0

You could give this a go  :D
Julie and Watson

Offline ludo

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 01:33:21 AM »
Have found Mark's thread about the fireworks!  ;)

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=35802.0

You could give this a go  :D

Thanks Joules - I'll check it out.   ;)
http:www.shireparkcockers.co.uk

Offline black taz

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2008, 04:29:44 PM »
My friend had a really good response to the spray collar she used on her dog for barking - but someone else i know was disappointed (but admitted they didnt use it often enough - it was for aggression when they tried to take something off him). 

When Taz was young, i did spray water at him when he barked at bedtime - it took 3 sprays one night and i havent heard a peep from him since at bedtime (only on one occasion when i took him in the garden just in case he needed a wee and he proceeded to throw up several times, then went and got back into his bed  :luv:)

I also noticed that he sometimes barked when he was in the garden but no-one seemed to be about - then i stood outside the other day and heard the two girls next door pretend to be barking tormenting him into barking because they know their mother hates it and comes round and complains to me (although it is vary rare either of mine bark outside unless someone comes to the door).  This probably also has something to do with the fact that Taz doesnt seem to like children

Offline Karma

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2008, 05:16:48 PM »

My parents were advised to use a water spray with their pup who barked at other dogs - as a direct result of this she grew into an adult dog with dog-fear-aggression.  It has taken years to get to the point where she can just ignore other dogs (unless they are in her face) and she has never played with another dog.  :'(

You can guess what my response would be to anyone who suggested using a spray collar or water pistol for barking issues.  :shades:
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline ludo

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2008, 12:51:56 AM »
My friend had a really good response to the spray collar she used on her dog for barking - but someone else i know was disappointed (but admitted they didnt use it often enough - it was for aggression when they tried to take something off him). 

When Taz was young, i did spray water at him when he barked at bedtime - it took 3 sprays one night and i havent heard a peep from him since at bedtime (only on one occasion when i took him in the garden just in case he needed a wee and he proceeded to throw up several times, then went and got back into his bed  :luv:)

I also noticed that he sometimes barked when he was in the garden but no-one seemed to be about - then i stood outside the other day and heard the two girls next door pretend to be barking tormenting him into barking because they know their mother hates it and comes round and complains to me (although it is vary rare either of mine bark outside unless someone comes to the door).  This probably also has something to do with the fact that Taz doesnt seem to like children

I know you probably think this is ok because people who advocate such things will say so and it can really be trial and error unless someone gives alternative advice so its great that we can all check these things out on COL.

I agree with Karma - her tale is a sad one but I guess it shows how spray collars and water sprays can do harm.  My original question was because I was quite surprised to see the ultrasound device recommended on here and so wanted to check if it was aversive because I'm not in favour of those methods.  Please don't take this the wrong way as it is not directed at you at all, but I think citronella sprays in the face are cruel as is water spray etc., etc., I know I wouldn't like someone to do that to me so why should my dog put up with it.

I am sad to say that once I saw someone at a ring-craft class with a spray bottle spraying their dog in the eyes and it yelped  :o  I felt very upset to see the dog react like this and won't go to that particular class again  >:(

I also have a friend who was advised to put watered vinegar in a spray bottle and spray her 12 week old puppy  :luv: with this in the face when he pulled on the lead in class!!!  >:D  Needless to say she left the class and I was able to recommend an APDT trainer to her - what a fantastic little dog he is turning out to be through all the work she has put in.  he's a handful but she is a good teacher and kind  :blink:

I'm a clicker and foodie fan myself - I'd much prefer my dog to do something because he enjoys it than to do it or not do it because he is fearful of what will happen to him  :luv:  I don't mind a bit of playful naughtiness either - much better than doggy eyes that have lost their spark.   :blink:
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Offline black taz

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2008, 06:25:07 PM »
I don't really advocate them - and i guess it depends on the dogs and the reason for barking (ie: if they are barking because they are afraid then this would not help).  I should have actually added to my previous message, when i sprayed water at Taz at bedtime, i didnt actually spray him - i sprayed at the side of him (he actually drank the water which i suppose distracted him from the barking!)

Personally i am a foody fan as well (as are Kelly and Taz). 




Offline ludo

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2008, 06:27:53 PM »
I don't really advocate them - and i guess it depends on the dogs and the reason for barking (ie: if they are barking because they are afraid then this would not help).  I should have actually added to my previous message, when i sprayed water at Taz at bedtime, i didnt actually spray him - i sprayed at the side of him (he actually drank the water which i suppose distracted him from the barking!)

Personally i am a foody fan as well (as are Kelly and Taz). 

Ah I see what you mean about the spray  ;)  Its not always easy to get across what you mean in postings  ;)

Have a good New Year.




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Offline black taz

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Re: Barking device from PAH
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2008, 06:32:03 PM »
I'll remember to give a fuller explanation next time  :blink:

I find dogs are like kids and respond better to positive behaviour. 

You have a good New Year too..