Lying down away from me

[little_jack]

Hi All
This is probably a really ridiculous question but how do you teach your cocker to lie down away from you. If I say lie down to Jack he will walk over and do it next to me (hope that makes sense). I have been racking my brains on how to go about this. I can get him to lie down next to me and I can get him to lie down next to me and stay in that position while I move away. Now somewhere in this I must be able to get him to lie down away from me Ive just not made the connection yet  . Hoping someone can offer advice to a probably really obvious thing that my brain cant fathom (could be the sudden sunshine we are experiencing here  ). Thanks

Kayli and Jack x

[Beth]

Not sure, Jarvis did it once perfectly without me training it, and i rewarded him loads but he's not managed it since. Think it's usually called "down at a distance" so not sure if something will come up from searching tis something i'd like to work on with Jarvis though.

[little_jack]

Thanks had a search, found a couple of things that may help. Looks like I will have to teach him to stop midway when I call him to me and then introduce the lie down. Its not really essential, he is still young. I just like to introduce new things into his training, dont want him getting bored, he loves learning commands and he is such an intelligent little thing  .

[goldblend90]

Hi there

Firstly I am no expert at this but can tell you how I managed to get Harley to go down away from me.

I started by getting Harley in the down, on his lead by the side of me, and then progressed to dropping the lead and take small steps away from him, and returning and rewarding.  Over time the distance between us grew, and then I would tell him down, and introduced a hand signal, I use my arm raised with flat palm facing the dog.

Now he will lay down away from me using just the hand signal, but on one occasion, the hand signal was brilliant, as through my local park, there is a concrete walk way, and on this particular day, a van was driving through the park, I was one side of the path and Harley the other.

I screamed, in shear panic at him down, and put my hand up, he laid down, and the van passed without incident.

Hopefully you can understand this.

[mcphee]

I still have great problems with distant down. My trainer suggests getting someone to help me. She feels Rufus knows exactly what to do but chooses not to. He will do dead dog, as we call it, when he is coming toward me sometimes, but never when moving away. I live in hope.

[little_jack]

I started by getting Harley in the down, on his lead by the side of me, and then progressed to dropping the lead and take small steps away from him, and returning and rewarding.  Over time the distance between us grew, and then I would tell him down, and introduced a hand signal, I use my arm raised with flat palm facing the dog.
Now he will lay down away from me using just the hand signal, but on one occasion, the hand signal was brilliant, as through my local park, there is a concrete walk way, and on this particular day, a van was driving through the park, I was one side of the path and Harley the other.
I screamed, in shear panic at him down, and put my hand up, he laid down, and the van passed without incident.
Hopefully you can understand this.

Thats fab, thanks! What a scary experience. Clever Harley for being a good boy  . I am already doing the lie down next to me then walking away but I was calling him too me and rewarding. Wil now be trying to go towards him and reward. Makes a lot of sense now 

I still have great problems with distant down. My trainer suggests getting someone to help me. She feels Rufus knows exactly what to do but chooses not to. He will do dead dog, as we call it, when he is coming toward me sometimes, but never when moving away. I live in hope.

I think this is going to be Jack's challenge really especially with me trying to train it  . We have lots of time ahead of us though and I will give it my best shot

[Nicola]

The stop whistle is one of the first things I teach a pup and one golden rule is never to call them to you out of a stop because they will anticipate it and it encourages them to break the stay - you always go to them and then give the release command or give the release from a distance and send them on to do something else.

Once the dog knows the 'down' command off pat to a verbal command and a hand signal I start putting it to a whistle (one long, low blast). The whistle works best as it's a clear, unambiguous command which the dog can hear and obey even if they're not looking at you or are even completely out of your sight. Once they've got the hang of the down whistle and can perform it in various environments I start doing it when the dog is walking alongside me on lead, I stop and simultaneously give the hand signal and blow the whistle so they lie down beside me. Once they've got this I start doing it with them off lead, at first ONLY doing it when they're pretty much right in front of me and they've got their attention on me - I blow the whistle and give a very clear hand signal, if they don't get it the first time or try to move towards me I take a step towards them while reinforcing the commands. I gradually increase the distance at which I give the command and increase and vary the distractions going on until eventually I can stop them no matter where they are or what they're doing with just the whistle (I phase out the hand signal and concentrate on the whistle as this is more practical for a working situation but in other situations you could keep the hand signal, mine still understand it and will obey it without the whistle even though I don't use it often).

[little_jack]

The stop whistle is one of the first things I teach a pup and one golden rule is never to call them to you out of a stop because they will anticipate it and it encourages them to break the stay - you always go to them and then give the release command or give the release from a distance and send them on to do something else.

Once the dog knows the 'down' command off pat to a verbal command and a hand signal I start putting it to a whistle (one long, low blast). The whistle works best as it's a clear, unambiguous command which the dog can hear and obey even if they're not looking at you or are even completely out of your sight. Once they've got the hang of the down whistle and can perform it in various environments I start doing it when the dog is walking alongside me on lead, I stop and simultaneously give the hand signal and blow the whistle so they lie down beside me. Once they've got this I start doing it with them off lead, at first ONLY doing it when they're pretty much right in front of me and they've got their attention on me - I blow the whistle and give a very clear hand signal, if they don't get it the first time or try to move towards me I take a step towards them while reinforcing the commands. I gradually increase the distance at which I give the command and increase and vary the distractions going on until eventually I can stop them no matter where they are or what they're doing with just the whistle (I phase out the hand signal and concentrate on the whistle as this is more practical for a working situation but in other situations you could keep the hand signal, mine still understand it and will obey it without the whistle even though I don't use it often).

Wow, thanks  . I like things step-by-step, my poor little brain can cope with it better  . It makes so much sense now it has been said that you shouldnt call them to you but go to them. I really dont know how I missed that. Think I will start from scratch with this and stop calling him to me etc. and build on it from there. Luckily he is still quite young so plenty of time to work at it.

[Top Barks]

Here is another method. Teach your dog to lie on a mat ( I use a carpet tile) start with it next to you and then gradually move the mat away then fade the use of the mat by making it smaller and smaller if needed.
Just a quick one as well for Nicola but I have to disagree with your golden rule about not calling your dog to you after a stop, after all it is just another cue and if your dog likes doing other stuff more then that could be just as tempting for the dog to break the stay.
Having seen your stop whistle though I'll just crawl back into my dog training hole and be quiet
put ten dog trainers in a room and the only thing they'll agree on is that the eleventh is wrong.

[little_jack]

Here is another method. Teach your dog to lie on a mat ( I use a carpet tile) start with it next to you and then gradually move the mat away then fade the use of the mat by making it smaller and smaller if needed.

Oooo thats a good idea, thanking you  . Jack already has a a couple of mats (one he has to lie on when he comes in), I will be able to have a go at that. Just a quick question about it though, would you start off in somewhere with no distractions like your house then gradually introduce it with more distractions? Or can you just start using it anywhere?

[Nicola]

Just a quick one as well for Nicola but I have to disagree with your golden rule about not calling your dog to you after a stop, after all it is just another cue and if your dog likes doing other stuff more then that could be just as tempting for the dog to break the stay.
put ten dog trainers in a room and the only thing they'll agree on is that the eleventh is wrong.

  definitely! For mine I have definitely found that it helps at the beginning not to recall them out of a stay, I can do it later on once they've got the idea that the stop command means 'stop and stay stopped' but at the start when they're young and just getting the hang of it they're often so keen to do the 'look! I know how to come when I'm called!' thing that they start anticipating it and creeping forward. One gundog trainer I know calls it 'the spaniel shuffle'

I think it depends what you want the dog to do after you've stopped them though, if you want them to come back to you then that's fine but I teach it from a working perspective in which case you're almost always going to be sending them on to do something else at a distance.

Having seen your stop whistle though I'll just crawl back into my dog training hole and be quiet

Err I don't think so, the day I could ever get Tilly to get me something out of the fridge would be a proud one

[Wendy G]

Agree with your instructions exactly Nicola.
Just knew that you would explain it better than me!

[supergirl]

Had to do something similar to this for the KC Good Citizen.  After seeking advice and trying a number of ways I came across it by accident.  Both mine will retrieve a tennis ball over and over again, and will anticipate and go running ahead before I've thrown it.  On one occassion Misha went running ahead and then stopped to look at me when I hadn't thrown the ball and I gave her the hand signal and command for down and she did (don't know why!!).  After alternately throwing the ball and pretending to throw the ball she began to reliably lie down on command. I'd ask her to wait and then walk to her to reward.  Surprisingly it worked for Roly as well, though he is less reliable, but I put this down to him still being a pup, so will take a bit more practice.  Have just started to introduce the whistle for down so hopefully will be able to build on this.

[little_jack]

Thanks another great way to train this. Now Im gonna have to try and choose one to try