are spot on treatments safe?

[Helen]

I have long thought that the chemicals in spot on treatments for ticks and fleas have to have some long term effects on dogs and after using frontline once on Jarv and reading up on it I now refuse to preventative treat him in this way - this article has been around for years but it's worth reading...

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:pJoMrA4DeOEJ:www.apnm.org/publications/resources/fleachemfin.pdf+fleachemfin&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

[Helen]

and here's her follow on article on IPM

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:fqb2kcA6ch8J:www.homevet.com/petcare/documents/fleacontrol.pdf+kathleen+dudley+IPM&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

[Joules]

Hmmm, interesting.  Have skimmed through that but I agree, anything that is called a 'pesticide' is not something I want to put on any of my animals unless I absolutely have to.    I never use preventative flea treatments on my cats or on Coco and in nearly 4 years none of them have ever had fleas    That is a lot of chemicals that they would have had in their systems absolutely unecessarily   

I do put tea tree and lavender oil in Coco's shampoo but doubt that is preventing them as she is hardly ever bathed.    She also has garlic in her food which probably helps.  If she did have fleas, however, I would definitely try a natural remedy like tea tree first to get rid of them - that is absolutely magic stuff    Much prefer to avoid chemicals if I can - the list of ingredients and their potential harmful effects is terrifying    If I could avoid using a chemical wormer too I would but since Coco has a lovely habit of eating poo I have to take that risk.   

[Cob-Web]

I'm sure that there is a risk to a dogs health by using preventative treatments such as this but it is clear from those articles that the extent and nature of the risk have not been defined or confirmed.

While I understand that all dog owners have a choice in terms of risk management, I think it is easy to *forget* the risks that we all subject our dogs to every day without question; dogs are killed in road accidents, as passengers in cars, by adder bites and all sorts of of other day-to-day risks that we have "accepted" are a part of day to day life.  I would suggest that some of the day-to-day risks to our dogs are far greater than the possible risks posed by medications 

In the case of preventative medication in order to keep dogs healthy - IMO, they are also day-to-day risks that I have to accept if I am to share my lives with dogs. If the risk was unacceptable to me, then the alternative is no dogs 

[Ben's mum]

Thanks for this, its really interesting - and very timely for me as well!

I havn't used any flea or tick treatment for about a year as I was worried about the chemicals, despite my vet telling me 'its perfectly safe!'  She already thinks I'm paranoid for titre testing
However this year there seems to be loads of ticks around, Bens not had any yet, but I was just considering ordering some of the dreaded Frontline to try to prevent him picking any up, but might think again

Bens mum

[Karma]

Frontline won't prevent him picking up ticks - it will only kill them once they are attached... (it normally takes about 24hrs to kill them off!)

 

[Ben's mum]

Frontline won't prevent him picking up ticks - it will only kill them once they are attached... (it normally takes about 24hrs to kill them off!)

 

thanks for that  I always assumed it helped prevent ticks attaching as well - whoops!  So thats another good reason not to use a spot on treatments, just check for ticks and remove!

Bens mum

[Helen]

Rachel, confirmed or not, I don't want to be the person that finds it's dog has been affected with cancer (for eg) connected to the poisons in pesticides (which will never be proved as the drug companies make far too much money by scaring people into buying pesticides for their dogs...)

I don't think it's worth the risk for a tick or fleas when there are other ways of naturally controlling the problem.

As Joules says, 4 years of no fleas and removing ticks rather than flooding a dog with pesticide is a far preferable option  

[Joules]

In the case of preventative medication in order to keep dogs healthy - IMO, they are also day-to-day risks that I have to accept if I am to share my lives with dogs. If the risk was unacceptable to me, then the alternative is no dogs   

But a dog can be perfectly healthy (some might say more so   ) without using those preventatives  I choose to feed Coco a healthy and natural diet with as few additives as possible, so using chemicals on her uneccesarily would be completely at odds with that.  If she was ill and needed medication then that is a different matter.    I agree with Helen, confirmed or not, I do not want to use chemicals on myself or my animals if I don't need to 

Of course there are risks in everyday life but a lifestyle risk eg traffic or adder bites are completely different imo to the use of chemicals for a perceived risk that may not even exist. 

With ticks, since the treatments only kill the tick once it has attached, I would far prefer to check Coco over every day and use the faithful O'Tom.     I know of several people who have had ticks attach to them - doesn't mean they should use Frontline on themselves does it?

[Rhona W]

In the case of preventative medication in order to keep dogs healthy - IMO, they are also day-to-day risks that I have to accept if I am to share my lives with dogs. If the risk was unacceptable to me, then the alternative is no dogs   

Of course there are risks in everyday life but a lifestyle risk eg traffic or adder bites are completely different imo to the use of chemicals for a perceived risk that may not even exist. 

Totally agree.  We face life style risks every day, but I don't treat myself against the risk of nits. 

I have never treated my dogs routinely against fleas and my vets are perfectly happy with that.

I did, however, treat them with Advantix before we went to Scotland last summer as I was worried about ticks and the increased risk of Lyme's disease in that area.   
And this summer we are going to France, so they will have to be treated again. 

[stuffster]

This is a fascinating thread and one I wish Id read 3 hours earlier - I JUST frontlined both dogs this morning, because Alfie is going in for general anaesthetic tomorrow.

Can I just ask what, if any, alternative treatments you will use, livercake? Would bathing in tea tree oil help, like it is supposed to with nits?

[supergirl]

I recently read about a case (in the US) regarding small dogs and flea & tick treatments when I was looking for the best price on flea treatments.  It was quite shocking how chemicals can build up quite quickly in the system of a small dog (it would seem that it isn't as great a risk for large dogs), but it definitely has made me question whether I need to use these products and perhaps look for natural alternatives. 

[Ninasmum]

Have only 'skimmed through' the article, but this has to my mind confirmed my beliefs that putting pesticides/chemicals on your dogs is not conducive to their long term health.  I use Frontline at the start of the summer on mine, usually just once or twice a year but after reading this, no i won't even be using it at all now.  I also believe that yearly vaccinations are not needed (mine are vaccinated every other year, apart from yearly lepto) and 'over-vaccinating' may possibly cause auto-immune disease.

[Helen]

This is a fascinating thread and one I wish Id read 3 hours earlier - I JUST frontlined both dogs this morning, because Alfie is going in for general anaesthetic tomorrow.

Can I just ask what, if any, alternative treatments you will use, livercake? Would bathing in tea tree oil help, like it is supposed to with nits?

I usually put a tiny bit of garlic in his food to help, am pretty vigilant with the flea comb too....on the IPM Link  there is a lot of info about natural deterrents - and a few drops of tea tree oil or lavender oil in a carrier oil is recommended as a spray on.

like Coco, Jarv has a few drops of oil in his shampoo - but we seldom bathe him 

I can remember pre spot-ons when my mum used to cope with (much hotter and longer) NZ summers and dogs and fleas...it never was much of a problem.  The dogs were flea combed until there were no signs (all fleas/dirt/eggs were deposited in a separate bucket of water and then poured down the toilet) and then bathed.  She did have some kind of 'new-fangled' (to her) tea tree oil spray to use when the dogs were dry and that was that.

The area where the dogs were bathed (outside hose) was then treated with DE (diatomaceous earth) when it dried out, as was most of the lawn (usually early in the morning of a day we all went out so any dust settled by the time we were home)

feeling really itchy now 

[spanielcrazy]

I have had the unfortunate experience of having severe flea infestations in barn cats. I tried every natural remedy I could find with no luck, so I think in the case of severe problems (which a couple of fleas can quickly get out of control) so I think the spot ons are a necessary evil.

They are probably far less harmful than the old dips, bombs, sprays, etc. but I do agree that anything that kills one or two species has the potential to harm another. It does appear, though, that most dogs are able to process it, even immune compromised dogs. Crackers got fleas pretty badly after she was diagnosed with AIHA and she was flea allergic so something had to be done. My vet (who is brill) recommended Advantage-of course I was terrified-but Crackers handled it well with no apparent problems from the Advantage.

Personally I only use it if I have seen fleas, I don't use it as a preventative but only as a treatment, so my use of it is spotty (pardon the pun  )