are spot on treatments safe?

[lainy]

this is an interesting subject, I just posted a similar question re vaccinations etc

[SJP]

...could you give them an odourless garlic capsule?  (Like what we hoomans have?)

[Helen]

...could you give them an odourless garlic capsule?  (Like what we hoomans have?)

I know some do and they're fine on them - wouldn't give them too often - have no idea if it builds up in the system but garlic  is on the 'toxic to dogs' list - that's why I just put a little bit (when I remember ) on Jarv's food....

[lindseyp]

My 3 have garlic in their food & Teatree & lavender oils added to shampoo when bathing, all as a preventative measure but would use frontline/Advocate if infested with fleas (but don't use routinely as the preventative method 'appears' to work for now  ) I use the O-tom & regular grooming for ticks (as I find the vet products un-effective.....they still get them despite being treated    we must have the 'SAS of ticks' down here....hard as nails    )
Having said that, I have treated Tinker twice with Advocate (6 weeks apart) as she is due to have an op in Sept & 'just in case' she had lungworm like her mom.....I did express my concerns but was told that 'the flea treatment part of the product is plant based & is in fact edible'? (don't try this at home!!  ) The wormer in the product is more the problem but the risk of complications to Tinks during the op outway the poss. of reaction on this occasion.
(I also use the same method with my cats ...not the bathing bit!.....Tuppence was 18 when she went & Figit is 14 & doing fine )

[Abby]

This is an ongoing worry for me. When we took over the pub the whole building was infested with fleas and it took us months to get on top of it. But the other problem is that we regularly have dogs in with customers who are heavy with fleas (the dogs not the customers  ).

If there is one flea around OH will get bitten so we always know  and if Dylan gets fleas he very easily reacts badly to them. Since we can't do anything about how other people look after our dogs I had been using Frontline regularly since being here, though I hate it. My vet is bored to tears with me questioning her about it's risks. We also spray the place every 6 months 

For the past two months I have beentrying to eliminate all unnecessary chemicals from our lives so this one has raised its head again and I haven't treated the boys this time around. I'll see how I go on with using garlic and tea tree - I use it as a grooming spray since we hardly ever bathe the dogs. I'm also going to get a flea comb and add that to our grooming regime, though Clive's woolly sheep coat makes that one hard 

[ladylola]

We recently went to a lavender farm and the farmer told us lavender is a great flea and tick repellant. He gave me a bottle of lavender  doggie shampoo.

Also it might be worth steam cleaning your floors upholstery and carpets as this will kill the eggs too.

No nasty chemicals needed.

[Hurtwood Dogs]

It goes against every grain in my body to do spot on treatments.. so for years I didn't and got away with it.

However, this year for the first time ever, we got a serious flea infestation and it has taken over 3 months and A LOT of chemicals to get completely rid of the little *******. It's been extremely bad timing as it happened when Maggie was just 6 weeks old but to be honest, having experienced this now and all of us having had A LOT of very bad bites, I WILL be treating the dogs from now on. I've lost a dog to AI so I'm no stranger to this but with young children in the house, I have to look at this with a different perspective.

I love my dogs like everyone else but for us with young children, it's not alright to run the risk of flea or worm infestations and the possible danger that brings to everyone (including the dogs) or hope for the best with garlic or lavender. I didn't use Garlic (although I always get bitten when abroad despite eating stacks of the stuff so I'm not convinced on that one ) or lavender or anything on the dogs for years and didn't have a problem... I think it's more luck of the draw and how prepared you are to deal with it and live with it for potentially a few weeks if you do get an infestation. Plus as has been mentioned, Garlic is on the poison list for dogs anyway.......

ETA: Interestingly, the dog I lost to AI aged 6 was only ever treated with frontline twice in his life and it was after he'd picked up lice twice. He also was only vaccinated 3 times and never had a kennel cough treatment as he never stayed in kennels...

[Helen]

I think we'll agree to disagree here Trevor - if you can tell me why 91 percent of the ingredients of Frontline are 'undisclosed' then I will reconsider my way of thinking  Also if you read the lengthy articles at the beginning of the thread you'll see that garlic and lavender are amongst many more natural flea control ways mentioned.

In the meantime I'll still fleacomb Jarv every day, and treat him with SMALL (which aren't poisonous) quantities of garlic and will endeavour to keep my flea and worm ridden dog away from small children (obviously he must be a risk since he's not preventatively chemically treated 'just in case' )

[Hurtwood Dogs]

I think we'll agree to disagree here Trevor - if you can tell me why 91 percent of the ingredients of Frontline are 'undisclosed' then I will reconsider my way of thinking  Also if you read the lengthy articles at the beginning of the thread you'll see that garlic and lavender are amongst many more natural flea control ways mentioned.

In the meantime I'll still fleacomb Jarv every day, and treat him with SMALL (which aren't poisonous) quantities of garlic and will endeavour to keep my flea and worm ridden dog away from small children (obviously he must be a risk since he's not preventatively chemically treated 'just in case' )

I can't tell you why they are undisclosed (I don't use frontline, I use Advocate) and I'm also not suggesting you should change what suits you or what you are happy with - I'm not sure why you think I am.

You're aware I've lost a dog to AI so as you can probably imagine, I have read an awful lot of articles and research on this subject and there is still no actual scientific, conclusive evidence in my mind. I'm sure there are reasons for limited research on this subject, the sceptic in me would say they are probably commercial ones.

However, there is another perspective to this which is all I've highlighted - if you are unlucky enough to get an infestation then it's an extremely unpleasant and longstanding issue to deal with and it has to be dealt with using a huge amount of chemicals AND spot on treatments. Another point to remember is that a LOT of dogs are treated with spot on treatments and live long and healthy lives. Whatever is said about garlic in that article, it's on the poison list from my vets and on countless other 'poisonous to dogs' list and as I KNOW it doesn't work for humans, it's unlikely to be really effective in a proper case of fleas, so I won't be relying on that or giving it just in case it helps 

In the end it's personal choice and what is realistic for your family/lifestyle. Spot on treatments may not be for everyone and I didn't use them for years as I've already mentioned. However for us now, EVEN having lost a dog to AI, the 'risk' from spot on treatment is not outweighing the seriousness of a proper flea infestation or any other parasite problem in a home with a baby and young child. Agreeing to disagree isn't the point here I'd suggest. However, it is important to highlight other scenarios, as well as the fact that preventative treatments might possibly, in some cases have a negative health effect on the animal being treated - even if in most cases it doesn't.

Hannah

ETA. Another unpleasant side effect of our visiting friends this year, was that both dogs got tape worm... which occurs when dogs eat fleas carrying tape worm eggs. This didn't happen until about 6 weeks into us first noticing the first fleas. It was a very long and drawn out process involving a lot of medication and chemicals to deal with all the fall out from a proper flea infestation. I know looking back that Dave picked them up from a dead rabbit, so it's not just contact with other dogs that you have to watch.

[Helen]

oh you can ask my SIL about flea infestation- it's terrible - it took 6 months to rid her house of fleas about 5 years ago.

she was gutted.

Worst thing was at the time she didn't even have a cat or a dog or had one visiting in the previous year - can't think they were transmitted from their goldfish  I suggested she frontline the children (that's a joke btw  )

It's not just AI - in fact I haven't researched that side of it - I've been looking at potential links with cancers & heart and lung problems - eliminating anything that may have a potential link with cancer is high in my mind as the statistics for dogs with cancer are just getting higher and higher.  And Advocate has a similar percentage of undisclosed ingredients.

We all do what's best in our own minds, I wouldn't continually booster children, or smear chemicals all over them, or worm them if they weren't showing any signs which is how I feel about dogs.  I also feel that the vet medicine industry is very good at manipulating people into thinking that their way is the best course for pet owners and making you feel like you're a bad owner if you don't purchase and use their products regularly.

And I wouldn't let my dog eat rotting rabbits or any dead animal (or poo) he may find - his leave command is sound, but I understand that it's not that easy to instill that in some dogs....so if I had a dog that didn't have a good leave command I would worm if I couldn't stop him from eating rotting carcasses.

[Hurtwood Dogs]

People can also try and make make you feel bad FOR treating your dogs I find.

No I don't smother my children with preventative chemicals or give them extra jabs but they don't tend to come into contact with that many parasites and when they do, I treat them and they are gone 24 hours later... unlike fleas and all the undesirables that go with them.

And because my dogs are so badly behaved/trained and I let them pick up dead animals and occasionally eat them, (although they obviously don't have to eat them for the fleas to transfer), I do have to address these issues at this time in our lives.

Potential carcinogens are all around us not just in treatments - although I understand exactly why you choose not to give them, but it's important not to underestimate the potential consequences of not treating dogs/family pets also, particularly in some circumstances.   

[mcphee]

People can also try and make make you feel bad FOR treating your dogs I find.

No I don't smother my children with preventative chemicals or give them extra jabs but they don't tend to come into contact with that many parasites and when they do, I treat them and they are gone 24 hours later... unlike fleas and all the undesirables that go with them.

And because my dogs are so badly behaved/trained and I let them pick up dead animals and occasionally eat them, (although they obviously don't have to eat them for the fleas to transfer), I do have to address these issues at this time in our lives.

Potential carcinogens are all around us not just in treatments - although I understand exactly why you choose not to give them, but it's important not to underestimate the potential consequences of not treating dogs/family pets also, particularly in some circumstances.   

I am inclined to agree. Having experienced flea infestations in other houses, seen the effects of worms in dogs and cats, I am of the view that the price that must be paid if I have a hunting dog or cat living in my house is thorough parasite control. I have two friends who do not share this view, and each time Rufus meets them, he comes back with a passenger. Luckily, they do not survive. I do respect the views of others, but having seen a round worm crawling in a pile of dog muck, it turns my stomach to think about not treating my dog, so I use stronghold every 4 weeks, on the dog and cat. Perhaps that makes me cruel in the eyes of some, but I do not intend to hurt my animals, merely to deal with an unpleasant side effect and risk to human health of having parasites in the house.