Am I harming pup's training?

[Mittens]

I have a feeling this post will get a mixed reaction - but is it "bad form" as far as training goes to let your puppy/dog on furniture and sleep on the bed?

We have started training classes with Eddie and he's doing really well and picking things up fast (some of the others look like a real handful in comparison  ) - at home he's great - ok he 'steals' the odd prize but always gives it back with no possessiveness, we can take food away and give it back etc - and out in the real world our only big issue is recall, as when he sees another dog he's off and running and suddenly goes deaf to all our calls, but we are working on this and using a long line where we know other people and dogs will be around etc - he's only four months!

But I get the distinct impression that our trainer thinks if your dog is allowed on the sofa or to sleep with you then you will not be "pack leader" and in charge...... but I LIKE having Eds lie next to me when I watch TV, and when he puts two paws up on the bed after lights out and I sneak him up on my side for a cuddle and a snooze!   Am I really storing up problems and potentially creating an undisciplined dog?

(ps sorry for the long post but i've been stewing on this all night!)

[laurenollie]

Ollie is and always has been allowed on the sofa and bed. He doesn't sleep on the bed when I'm in it BUT he chooses that and as soon as i get in he sods off!!! We can tell him down off the sofa and he will do, if he's being a bit crazy when on the bed we tell him down so he knows not to do it!

To me it doesn't show place in the pack I just think its down to personal preference of whether you want them to do it or not.

i think people will have different opinions though!!

L&O x

[JennyBee]

Ignore your trainer re pack theory . If there are no behavioural problems then IMO I see no reason why he can't be allowed on the furniture. Brodie is always on the sofa and I have never had any problems whatsoever - pack theory is really seen as outdated now, if you do a search for it as well as dominance theory on the forum you will see that this has been discussed many times. Out of interest, can I ask you a question about your trainer - what methods is his training based on? Does he only use positive reinforcement or has he ever suggested the use of adversives?

[LizH]

I have to say I started off not letting Pebble on the bed or sofa - and I sometimes ended up having 'arguments' with her in trying to get her off.

Many people told me it showed she was trying to be dominant or the pack leader but I have since read many articles/books which say that the idea that a dog is trying to be pack leader because they get on the furniture is pretty much rubbish.  It's just often the nicest warmest spot with the best view!  In my experience with Pebble she has not changed her behaviour because she sometimes sits on the sofa with me and always sleeps on my bed - in fact I would say our bond is now much stronger than it was beforehand.

I have trained her to get off both when required.

I think as  lauranollie said it is completely up to you - whether you allow your dog on the sofa/bed or not - its personal preference but don't disallow it because you think its somehow showing you not to be 'pack leader'

[ElaineH]

There are many people on here whose dogs sleep on their bed, surely it's just doing what suits your situation and your personal preference? Morgan is allowed on the sofa and it's lovely snuggling up to him in the evening. To be honest, I don't know how else I'd manage to handstrip his head, it's the perfect opportunity!

I don't have him in the bedroom, nor the cats either, I prefer it that way and in any case I suffer from insomnia and need all the sleep I can get   My advice is to do what you personally are happy with.

[Annette]

We must all choose how we want to live with our dogs.

I am sure many of us would be surprised at how many others treat their dogs.And none of them would be wrong!


So many of us on here started with a "no furniture" rule, and many of us have abandoned that particular dream and just live with the jostling on the sofa and begging the dog for a seat scenario! (Buddy is allowed on the sofa "by invitation only" Hah!  )


But do ditch the pack theory fiction, and if your trainer is adamant that that is the basis of all training then ditch the trainer!

[SimonandMandy]

I was in the category of no dogs on furniture or bed but also failed miserably - it is down to your own preference but whatever you choose you do need to be consistent... what amazes me is that at different houses they will fall into the rules of that house too...

[JennyBee]

So many of us on here started with a "no furniture" rule, and many of us have abandoned that particular dream and just live with the jostling on the sofa and begging the dog for a seat scenario! (Buddy is allowed on the sofa "by invitation only" Hah!  )

  yep I had the same rule for Brodie but she was such a persistent little so and so that eventually she wore me down

[jennycockerspaniel]

I had Jennie on the bed and Lois when he stayed and both get off bed and chairs when told. My husband goes out early some mornings so he takes her out brings her in with me and we have a little lie in but at the moment she stiil goes to bed in her pen downstaairs.

 

[Mittens]

Ignore your trainer re pack theory . If there are no behavioural problems then IMO I see no reason why he can't be allowed on the furniture. Brodie is always on the sofa and I have never had any problems whatsoever - pack theory is really seen as outdated now, if you do a search for it as well as dominance theory on the forum you will see that this has been discussed many times. Out of interest, can I ask you a question about your trainer - what methods is his training based on? Does he only use positive reinforcement or has he ever suggested the use of adversives?

She uses "reward based" training (treats and a "happy voice") - never any suggestion of physical/negative punishment (or I wouldn't have signed up  )

[jennycockerspaniel]

Correction to my post i meant to say my new puppy penny gets cuddles on a morning.

[Hurtwood Dogs]

IMO, if that's what your trainer really thinks, it's twaddle  

As long as you make sure that when you ask your dog to get off he does - i.e. Teach him it - tell him 'off' then and lure him off with a treat and reward him for doing as you ask and practice it a bit, then it's very unlikely you will get any problems. Most dogs are fine living how you like to live and it doesn't undermine normal obedience training, plus you'll get a better bond with them if they live around you too   You might occasionally get a situation where he tries it on and gives you low growl but it's likely he's just checking the lay of the land. Just carry on and teach him off - or you can train them not to get on beds sofa's unless invited if you like - it's all personal choice.

Mine aren't allowed on the bed or even upstairs at the moment, not because I'm worried about not being in charge but because they've both had fleas this year and countless tics  

It sounds like you're doing really well with him!

Hannah x

[Karma]

As others have said - as long as you are consistent and clear about your rules, it really doesn't matter what those rules are...

Honey has always been allowed up onto the furniture - we decided on this before we brought her home as we knew we couldn't consistently enforce a no-furniture rule (cos we wanted cuddles).

She knows to wait for permission to jump onto us when we are sitting down (or next to us), and will sit expectantly waiting for this to be given, and she will get off when we ask her to.  
The only time I can see why a no-sofa rule might need to be put in place for training needs would be if this led to guarding issues (which isn't going to be caused by allowing your dog up, but being on the sofa could become a trigger in a dog who was prone to guarding, iyswim) - otherwise it's personal preference as to whether you as an owner wants the dog on the sofa or not.

Honey has only recently been allowed up to our room, and is still only allowed up on invitation, but that was because I was allergic to her when we first got her, so I needed the bedroom dog-free!  I really wish she had been able to come up earlier, as she rarely relaxes upstairs, and I would love to be able to have a lie in at the weekend with Honey (oh, and OH I guess!   ).

[supergirl]

Hope not, both mine are allowed on the sofa & bed - its the best thing on a chilly night with a good film etc.  Usually its two dogs, two cats and me all snuggled up.  After all it is their home too and they're both love their cuddles.

I did try the "not on the furniture", but I hated it and they hated it - so what was the point.

You're baby is only 4 months, he's recall will get there.  Roly also likes to go and say hello to other dogs, and if their owners don't mind I let him (its very good for their socialisation), he will always come back afterwards when he is called.  Nowadays, he does it less and is much quicker, will have a quick sniff and come straight back.  If I don't want him to go up to another dog, I just change direction.

Both have done their KC certs to Gold (Roly completed his at 10months old), and both now do agility (Misha is coming on nicely, Roly is just a beginner) - don't think having them on the sofa has harmed their training in anyway.

[JennyBee]

Ignore your trainer re pack theory . If there are no behavioural problems then IMO I see no reason why he can't be allowed on the furniture. Brodie is always on the sofa and I have never had any problems whatsoever - pack theory is really seen as outdated now, if you do a search for it as well as dominance theory on the forum you will see that this has been discussed many times. Out of interest, can I ask you a question about your trainer - what methods is his training based on? Does he only use positive reinforcement or has he ever suggested the use of adversives?

She uses "reward based" training (treats and a "happy voice") - never any suggestion of physical/negative punishment (or I wouldn't have signed up  )

Thanks for replying - I was just curious because from what I've read on the net, a lot of trainers who follow pack theory don't seem to use positive reinforcement very much