Author Topic: Barney is attacking Morgan - UPDATED WITH NEWS  (Read 8321 times)

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Offline CraftySam

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Barney is attacking Morgan - UPDATED WITH NEWS
« on: June 28, 2009, 01:42:15 AM »
I’m having problems with Barney and he’s started attacking Morgan, my American Cocker.

Barney is a very highly strung cocker, he’s very loveable and would love to be cuddled 24/7. I would say he’s always been highly strung however since my split from my ex husband in May 2008 he’s been getting much worse.

He was definitely my ex husbands dog. They both adored each other completely and Barney took his leaving very hard resulting in him being very stressed, crying endlessly, pooing inside, pacing constantly and being very grumpy with the other dogs at times amongst other things.  My ex was not in a position to take him (not that I would have been thrilled with that! I do think in the right circumstances it would have been the right thing to do for Barney though).

On one occasion shortly after he left Barney attacked Morgan, who was minding his own business, and wouldn’t stop when I yelled at him. Morgan was squealing and trying to get away but Barney just went with him on top of him. I interjected with one of my crutches (walking crutch) gently as I couldn’t get him to stop. Morgan was stunned I think, as was I. He was ok just rather taken aback.

After that we had the odd grouchiness from Barney towards Morgan (never Sapphi or Max) but nothing to write home about really. My ex was coming back to walk the dogs a couple of times a week but in the end I had to put a stop to him seeing Barney because he became far too stressed when my ex left. After a while he seemed to improve a little. My ex does still walk the other 3 dogs and I have to put Barney away whilst he picks them up outside the house and Barney has the screaming habdabs but that’s over quickly and we don’t have any of the symptoms of stress.

Then a number of months later whilst I had the builders in fitting a new kitchen it happened again. Again I saw exactly what happened, Barney had some food and Morgan walked past him. He didn’t get too close or make any attempts to take it. It was the same again, yelling didn’t stop him. Again Morgan was trying to get away squealing and Barney wouldn’t let go. This time I was in my electric wheelchair and I zoomed up to him full speed which stopped him.

On both of those occasions I would say Barney was under stress and he doesn’t deal with that at all. I put the episodes down to that. I am consulting my homeopathic vet for help with Barney’s stress and we’ve tried 3 different remedies so far with no success. Before this I tried Zylkene for a couple of months which didn’t help. I took Barney to a Tellington Touch workshop to see if it would help him and it made him violently sick. He was sick a total of 10 times during the workshop and a further 8 times that day, it was hell. They said it was his stress, I wasn’t convinced it wasn’t just a bug! However I have since attempted some basic T Touch on him and he vomits so I’m now too frightened to continue. I do however put Barney in a T Shirt or a wrap when he appears to be getting more stressed.

Now in just over a week Barney has attacked Morgan twice. Last week Morgan was sat watching the birds in the garden through the patio door and getting a bit excited and he was tapping on the glass. Barney was sat off to Morgan’s left quite a way behind him. All of a sudden Barney launched at Morgan. I was laid back in my rise/recline chair which is quite slow at moving to stand you up so while it was doing that I was yelling at him to stop and he wouldn’t. Morgan was really distressed so in the end I threw the remote control just to the side of them and Barney stopped thank god.

Today (Saturday) it’s happened again. This time I didn’t see what happened as I was out of the room but the results were the same. I used my crutch again to put a stop to it. Again Morgan was very shell shocked.

This time there isn’t anything stressful going on that I could say has upset him and this time the attacks have been a lot closer together than previously.
I am at the end of my tether. I feel that I can’t let this go on for Morgan’s sake, at the moment he’s not getting too badly hurt but I’d never forgive myself if he did, and he’s been completely shaken up by all of this. I just don’t know what else to do with Barney. I do go training with a registered APDT trainer and she says I'm doing what I should be.

Barney is 3.5 yrs and Morgan is 2.5yrs, I’ve had them both since 8 weeks old and they are both castrated.

Does anyone have any suggestions or views? I’d be very grateful if you do.
Sam is mum to - Sapphi (working black Lab 5 1/2 yrs), Max (Golden Retriever 4 yrs) Morgan (American Cocker 2 1/2yrs) and mum in spirit to Barney (English Cocker 3 1/2 yrs now living in Scotland)

Offline cazza

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2009, 10:22:40 AM »
Blimey what a time you have been having - I was thinking about you last night

when was barney last checked by the vet? I would get him checked

Hope things can get sorted for you all  :luv:

Offline CraftySam

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2009, 09:40:18 PM »

when was barney last checked by the vet? I would get him checked

He was checked over about 5 weeks ago and been having reviews every couple of weeks since. Nothing seems to be wrong apart from the fact he's extremely highly strung and never seems to have recovered from my ex husband leaving.
I'm spending a fortune I don't have at the vets trying to find something that will help settle him down a bit but haven't had any success yet.

I'm frightened for Morgan and am just so torn.  :'(  I've been doing a lot of thinking and I wonder if a lot of the problem is a lack of a man. Barney adored my ex and was so attached to him to the point he literally screamed when he came home. Now he has become very attached to my neighbours 16 yr old grandson and he now screams when he comes to visit. He seems to get very attached to men and I wonder if a lack of a man is a problem for him. I love him dearly but not even for him am I going down that road again!!

Also in the last three months he's turned into Harry Houdini and I don't know if this is a symptom of anything. He is just such a complex little man.
Sam is mum to - Sapphi (working black Lab 5 1/2 yrs), Max (Golden Retriever 4 yrs) Morgan (American Cocker 2 1/2yrs) and mum in spirit to Barney (English Cocker 3 1/2 yrs now living in Scotland)

Offline lexi

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2009, 09:43:06 PM »
I do go training with a registered APDT trainer and she says I'm doing what I should be.

Your reactions sound good to me, too.
I had a similar situation with Byron and Mac (both entire). Byron is very much king of the castle and tends, at times, to be a bit of a bully where other males are concerned. I've had to pull Byron off a squealing Mac a few times in the past. Mac has never come to any physical harm during these "encounters". Barney and Morgan are relatively close in age so perhaps Barney somehow feels threatened in his authority. You say he is easily stressed which could be an explanation for his outbursts. He sounds just like Byron - deep down very insecure. :-\
The only advice I can give you is to be patient, authoritative and continue with what you're doing. It's probably just a phase and as long as Morgan isn't getting hurt then things will most likely sort themselves out.
Good luck and let us know how you progress. ;)
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Offline Joules

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2009, 09:48:00 PM »
Aw Sam, I am sorry you are having these problems with your boys  :-\  Men eh?  ::)  I have no advice but I am sure someone will be along with some help.  ;)  I hope you can find a solution that suits all of you and I agree with you, getting another man in is far too much to ask !! :005:

Sounds like you are doing everything right to me but hopefully someone with direct experience will be able to give you some pointers.  :-\

Take care and keep us posted how things go.  :-*
Julie and Watson

Offline Nicola

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2009, 10:20:43 PM »
I'm really sorry to read this Sam hun :-\  this sounds a bit like what Rodaidh was doing to Alfie except it was happening every day and Alfie would fight back and they were both getting hurt. I generally ended up having to physically drag them off each other. Alfie reacted the same way as Morgan afterwards though - he'd be very shell shocked and unsurprisingly he ended up very subdued and almost afraid to move in case Rodaidh hammered him and Rodaidh was just in a permanent high-alert stressy state. It wasn't good for any of us so you have my full sympathy. I know your trainer is very good but it could be worth speaking to a behaviourist? The problems for us started when Rodaidh hit maturity at about 18-20 months and Alfie was nearly 3.

I hope in your case as Morgan doesn't retaliate and they're not injuring each other you may be able to get it sorted out, you know where I am :-*
Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline jann

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2009, 10:21:02 PM »
Oh dear Sam, I thought Barney had settled down. I'm sorry to hear you are still having problems .

 Just a thought,Although you say he doesn't seem as bad now when Andrew takes the other 3 out, could it be that he picks up on his smell when they come back?  I know you say he doesn't bother Max or Sapphi but they are bigger and older so maybe that's why he picks on Morgan ??

If it really came to it, is there still no way that Andrew could have him ?

I do hope you can find a solution soon for all your sakes,

Jann  :luv: :-*

Offline brownsugar

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2009, 10:53:57 PM »
What a awful situation for you and for the dogs too. You have tried about all the things I would have tried in your situation.

Might I make a bit of an awkward point? I don't know your personal situation, but I gather from your post you have an illness which makes you less mobile? Might this make it more difficult to intervene in time when tension mounts between both dogs?

In the past I 've had a mild version of your problem with three Leonberger bitches. The youngest and most insecure attacked the middle one. We tried to prevent conflict as we saw tension rising and intervened inmediately when the youngest started a fight. It never got out of hand (worse than a little hole in an ear) and they all lived out their lives with us and each other. (Thankfully.)

The other thing is the man thing. If you really think Barney needs to bond with a man to be happy, would you consider giving him such a home?

I'm sorry I have no real advice or clear solution, but wishing you the best in this difficult situation.



Offline joanne_v

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2009, 11:03:41 PM »
Definitely sound like Barneys a sensitive lad. He must have read the same book as Lily  ::) The t-touch thing is really interesting from a behavioural point of view.... what parts of it have you tried? Does the bodywrap/t-shirt help him? What homeopathic remedies have you tried? If he seems more drawn to men could you get a man to try the t-touch and see if the same thing happens? Apart from the vomiting did he show any other signs of stress?

Do you think he picks on Morgan as Morgan is the smallest out of the other 3? Did they used to get on ie play together or anything? What do the other dogs do when Barney has a go?

Not much use am I with all the questions but its all linked together......  ;)


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Offline CraftySam

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2009, 11:37:12 PM »
Alfie reacted the same way as Morgan afterwards though - he'd be very shell shocked and unsurprisingly he ended up very subdued.

It wasn't good for any of us so you have my full sympathy.

I feel so guilty that Morgan is having to go through this. I think I feel more guilty because every time it happens Morgan is minding his own business completely and is set upon completely out of the blue.
Like a friend said today its not as if Barney is reacting to something Morgan's doing like bugging him when asleep or when eating because Morgan would learn not to do it.

I'm pretty stressed out with it now. Barney's had his issues before and I've been able to manage them and get it sorted. On the first two occasions I could see the link to heightened stress but right now that isn't the case and that is what worries me.

I'll PM re your behaviourist suggestion.



 Just a thought,Although you say he doesn't seem as bad now when Andrew takes the other 3 out, could it be that he picks up on his smell when they come back?  I know you say he doesn't bother Max or Sapphi but they are bigger and older so maybe that's why he picks on Morgan ??

If it really came to it, is there still no way that Andrew could have him ?


Yes Jann I'm sure he's fully aware that Andrew has been about. I handover the dogs to Andrew outside by the gate whilst Barney is shut in the hall out of sight. However Barney isn't responding to this in the same way he did when he used to see Andrew or when he could smell he'd been in the flat. Then he'd start the constant crying and poo'ing inside for days on end. So whilst I think he knows he's been about it doesn't appear to be distress him to the same level.

Andrew work's full time and has just been given a flat in a high rise so its a non starter unfortunately.

If he had a go at Sapphi she'd finish it I'm sure! Only seen her in action once but it was eye opening!  :o She'd never start it but she'd certainly stick up for herself. Max is very quietly the boss and whilst Max would react exactly the same as Morgan I don't think Barney knows it!

I look after a friends Shitzhu and Barney adores her, plays endlessly with her and has never had a crossword. Interestingly any new dog that comes to our house it's Barney that is falling over himself to welcome them. He's becoming a Jackal and Hyde character.  :-\

Might I make a bit of an awkward point? I don't know your personal situation, but I gather from your post you have an illness which makes you less mobile? Might this make it more difficult to intervene in time when tension mounts between both dogs?

In the past I 've had a mild version of your problem with three Leonberger bitches. The youngest and most insecure attacked the middle one. We tried to prevent conflict as we saw tension rising and intervened immediately when the youngest started a fight. It never got out of hand (worse than a little hole in an ear) and they all lived out their lives with us and each other. (Thankfully.)

The other thing is the man thing. If you really think Barney needs to bond with a man to be happy, would you consider giving him such a home?

Don't worry it's not an awkward point at all!  :D I'm very open about my illness and its effects.  Yes I am not very mobile. I use crutches as much as I can inside my home and use an electric wheelchair the rest of the time.  It does make it more difficult for me to intervene because I can't risk attempting to pull him off because I'm very easily caught off balance and will fall which will make my condition worse. So I've had to use one of my crutches and when I couldn't get up which enough throw the remote just to try startle him. This worries me.

Barney has kicked off quite a bit before now and like you I learnt what the catalysts were and managed the situation so to avoid them. In that situation if he started to react a vocal correction from me stopped him before it got out of hand. Also in those circumstances it wouldn't purely be directed at Morgan it would be at any one of them.
Now the big difference is that there aren't any outward signs at all before he launches himself at Morgan. I wasn't in the room yesterday but last week he was literally sat a little way behind Morgan just to one side of him and he look relaxed and then all hell broke loose.......that is what I find frightening because it just doesn't give me anything to work with.

I've been doing an awful lot of thinking trying to find answers and clues to this mess. Never in a million years did I ever think I'd encounter a situation where I'd ever even have a fleating thought of having to rehome any of my dogs, I made a commitment for life. In all my soul searching for ways to resolve the situation and thinking what situation would be best for Barney I wonder whether being an only dog with a permanent relationship with a man would help him be happier but I can't offer either of those things.  :'(
Sam is mum to - Sapphi (working black Lab 5 1/2 yrs), Max (Golden Retriever 4 yrs) Morgan (American Cocker 2 1/2yrs) and mum in spirit to Barney (English Cocker 3 1/2 yrs now living in Scotland)

Offline jann

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2009, 12:57:59 AM »
 :luv:
Sam, I'm so sorry you have this dilemma with Barney  :'(  I can imagine how you must be feeling but please don't in any way blame yourself.

Those of us that know you know how much you have achieved with your dogs and how dedicated you are to them. I know that if there was a simple answer to all of this you would have been the first to know how to  deal with it   ;)

I know it is almost too hard to contemplate, but if you have tried everything then maybe as you say re homing Barney would be for the best  :huh: There is no shame in doing this, it would be the bravest thing, putting Barney's happiness before your own.


Thinking of you, Jann  :luv:

Offline CraftySam

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2009, 01:04:02 AM »
The t-touch thing is really interesting from a behavioural point of view.... what parts of it have you tried? Does the bodywrap/t-shirt help him? What homeopathic remedies have you tried? If he seems more drawn to men could you get a man to try the t-touch and see if the same thing happens? Apart from the vomiting did he show any other signs of stress?

Do you think he picks on Morgan as Morgan is the smallest out of the other 3? Did they used to get on ie play together or anything? What do the other dogs do when Barney has a go?


The T Touch workshop was an introduction to it. I used the circle and a quarter randomly over his body, cupping his ears in my hand and rotating them in both directions and holding his ear between finger and thumb and running them down his ear. I also did some mouth work, some belly lifts with the wrap. During the workshop they put a wrap on him to try help him calm whilst he was vomiting and it didn't appear to have much of an effect. Since using both the T Shirt and wrap at home I can't really say I can see an improvement. I persevere because my view is they can't do any harm.

I would have always described Barney as a stress monster and that was indeed how I introduced him at the workshop. However during the course of the workshop I discovered a lot of the other behaviour I put down to him being a Cocker was actually him exhibiting signs of stress, far more than I ever thought and I was completely devastated that he was sooo distressed. I also felt a huge amount of guilt for my relationship with my ex ending as it has devastated him so much.  :'(

Other signs of stress are his constant pacing, his howly cry he does while pacing. As soon as I make any move to get up he starts frantically spin and scream which I find quite stressful when all I want to do is go to the loo. He licks an awful lot too which I learnt was a sign of stress too at the workshop. He intermittently poo's inside when really stressed. He howls with screams if he thinks he's missing out on something. From being a pup he never liked the idea he might be missing out on something but that has got much worse since my ex left.
His tail never stops, now I thought that meant he's happy but I learnt that wasn't always the case and he does seem to have excessive tail wagging which can also be another sign of stress. Barney either is frantically on the go or completely crashed out and he goes from one to the other in a split second. The vet was quite surprised when she witnessed it.
The practitioners spent some time with Barney and said that they weren't surprised I'd not recognised the things they pointed out because he does hide his stress well in terms of how he is when they met him. He's desperate to bestow his love on everyone he meets and at face value looks at happy chap. They all wanted to take him home.
I really don't know a man who would do T Touch with him.  My family don't want to know about any of this ("we told you gold cockers were nothing but trouble"  >:( >:( They know nothing about dogs but a very "helpful" friend informed them of this just before I got Barney and in their mind they've been proved right. For a long time I hid the problems I'd had in the past).

I'm going to sound a bit dumb about the homeopathic remedies I'm afraid.  ::) I am new to homeopathy and recently moved vets to a practice that offered it as a first point of treatment. The first remedy was in pilule form and is Nat Mur 1M according to the label, the second remedy was in tincture form and is Ignatia 1M and the third was pilule but I no longer have the bottle as it was all used up. In all the cases the dose was 1 pilule/spray evening, morning and evening once.

Barney and Morgan have on the whole got on and used to play a lot when Morgan was a puppy but don't now. Barney has always had a jealous side of him. If he was sat on my ex's knee and any of the dogs came up to him he would snap at them. I always told him to make Barney get down immediately so that he learnt that behaviour got him precisely the opposite of what he wanted. However my ex refused no matter how many rows we had about it.  >:(
Barney knows if he behaves like that with me his cuddle ends immediately and rarely tried it on. However in the last few weeks he has been doing and I am standing firm.
Both the boys like to cuddle up on me when I'm laid back in my rise/recline chair. If Barney's on first and Morgan jumps on Barney has started to snap and snarl more so he is told to get off immediately. If Morgan is on first and Barney jumps on he's happy to share.

Barney did from time to time try to push others having a fuss out of the way and I've never stood for that. This problem is now getting worse with his persistent pushing others away or blocking them. I am ignoring him and continuing fussing who I was originally. I think its just showing that he's not becoming more unhappy and needing more reassurance constantly. However I'm not going to allow him to get away with this behaviour because I fear it will be a very slippery slope to more bad behaviour. When he has eventually stopped pushing in for his turn he gets loads of cuddles just like everyone else.

Sapphi and Max move to the other end of the room when Barney is attacking Morgan. I'd not really realised what they were like after I had intervened and stopped it until the day I threw the remote and when Barney had skulked off to bed I asked Sapphi to go and fetch it for me and she was too frightened to go for it as Barney was quite close to it.

I think i've answered everything!  :005:
Sam is mum to - Sapphi (working black Lab 5 1/2 yrs), Max (Golden Retriever 4 yrs) Morgan (American Cocker 2 1/2yrs) and mum in spirit to Barney (English Cocker 3 1/2 yrs now living in Scotland)

Offline 1sttimecockermum

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2009, 06:24:38 AM »
I have no advice for you but I just wanted to say how sorry I am that this is happening to you and your dogs  - you are so dedicated to finding a solution - I really hope you can find one  :-* 
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Offline fifer

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2009, 07:03:36 AM »
I have a dog aggressive cocker aged 7 now but still aggressive in certain circumstances.  For example if I have a "catalyst" rehab dog in as recently I can have a full scale battle usually just the two but it can escalate - all mine are dogs so it disturbs the "balance".  This is not an easy thing to handle and is extremely stressful as I know both Nicola with Alfie and I have found out for ourselves.  I know his triggers, but even so my lad is occasionally simply not a pleasure to be around, have or work with!

I note you say you are feeling quite stressed with it all now, I fully understand that and also the fact that you are less than able bodied puts you at a disadvantage.

I have thought hard about your options for Barney and also considered whether it is fair on either you or Barney for you to continue searching for answers.  I just wondered if you could do as Nicola did with Alfie and have a friend who could take Barney out of the equation for a month or so to give both you and Morgan some breathing space during which you could consider what you want to do or how to progress?  Perhaps next door's grandson?

If you are struggling physically, suffering with high stress levels and have financial constraints to take into account too, then I have to say rehoming Barney may be the answer for both your own health and welfare and Barney's, sad though that is. 

Whatever you decide, good luck - and no-one can say you didn't try hard enough nor have Barney's and your other dogs best interests at heart.
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Offline cazza

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Re: Barney is attacking Morgan
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2009, 07:38:35 AM »
Sam I am going to come out and ask you what a few people may be thinking - is there any chance that if you need to rehome Barney that your ex OH could take him?

I really hope something can be worked out and my thoughts are with you  :luv: