Very Poor Recall - and thats on a good day

[sharonmansfield]

Hello All -  Can someone please help me with our cocker Bella. She is a 2 year old show type cocker bitch and the light of my life. However, The problem is when out on walks her recall is terrible to non existent. When let off the lead she will play ball for a while then she will get the scent of something and then its head down, nose on, turn ears off. She will also just bound over to other people and dogs and I have to go and fetch her to get her back on the leash. Its  embarrasing to shout a dog that just does not appear to hear you - she is not deaf by the way she can hear cheese unwrapping in the kitchen from the garden so its kind of selective. If the fields are busy then I tend to keep her on a flexi lead but its not the same as having a good run about. I cant relax and enjoy our walks for constantly looking out for other people its all becoming a bit stressfull.
Her recall at home is wonderful its like when out she is totally distracted. I have met 2 other cocker owners with the same problem. I have never had a problem like this with the GSD we had and our other younger cocker Jasmine is brilliant.
I have also spoken to people with other breeds of dogs who have a similar issue and the link I can find is that the dogs were over 3 months old when they had them. We had Jasmine at 7 weeks. Bella was 4 months.
I was wondering if training her to come to a whistle might help? I would greatly appreciate any feedback anyone has, I know there are a lot of people on here with a wealth of experience with the breed, Bella is my first one. Many thanks
Sharon

[JennyBee]

I would start by putting her on a longline and harness. The trick with recall is to make yourself much more interesting than anything else. It generally means you have to run around making a fool of yourself - do you reward her when she comes back? I'm sure someone else will be along with more tips

you have my sympathy on the people front - Brodie loves children and I have to put her on the lead before she spots them otherwise she's been known to create havoc

[GillSarge]

We're having the same problem with one of our dogs! he's like the dog that's never grown up!!  We've not got him on a long line, and working at his recall.  you'd think they would be too tried to run off far in this heat.  The other 3 are great, never leave our sight, unless Chester spots a cat or bird, but even then we can call him away from a bird.

I'd be interested in what others have to say.

[sharonmansfield]

Many thanks for responding - I have tried the jumping around and flapping my arms and generally looking a fool but she does not even look in my direction, I think the only way I could be more interesting is if I smelled of fox poop!!!!
I have tried the rewards when she comes back but she is just not interested in taking food when out walking which is strange as she is a real foody. I will try a long line thats a very good idea many thanks. Could do with a big fishing rod so that I can reel her in ha ha!!!!
Thanks again

[JennyBee]

Is she interested in a particular toy? Brodie has a rope toy she only sees on walks - I sometimes use it as a reward by playing with her, I guess if she's not food-orientated you could try that?

Like the idea of a fishing rod

[Mittens]

I'm working on recall with my (nearly) 5 month old and it's the same story - perfect at home in the garden, at training and in an empty field - non-existent with the distraction of other dogs or people or birds in the park 

We have bought a long line which we have on his harness and we just practise, practise practise with a treat every single time he comes. I had a minor breakthrough on Sunday on my own with him, nothing around so we were walking off lead - he spotted a dog and kids a mile off and started to run off, I shouted and jumped about and when he turned to look I walked in the opposite direction, he weighed it all up AND RAN BACK TO ME!!!! It was the eureka moment that keeps me going! I anticipate it will be a long time before his recall is anywhere near consistent, but keep at it is the key i think. Good luck 

[mcphee]

Whatever you do, nail it early. I reckon I am not the best adviser, given how Rufus is. However with much hard work recall has improved, but it is not what it should be at 4 and a half. I can however direct him with commands now in our usual walk, to stop him going to his favourite hunting ground but I have to be very firm.
Looking back, because he was so good at following me til he was about 5/6 months, and did it indoors, I did not realise how great the problem would be. I think I did not call him back or distract him early or often  enough, and I did not use a strict enough voice.(I now growl). He was not food or toy oriented. It has been suggested that clicker training to establish focus on one's face is useful, and a long line may help you. Agility has helped close control. I am not sure I will ever stop the hunting completely, so I try to compromise. I do not have him going over to people joggers or cyclists , having worked hard on the leave command since he was nearly kicked by a jogger at about 18 months. If he does it he gets praise, if not he gets put on the lead and our games stop. Close recall on the green has been a matter of constant repetition, and not giving up. He may still chase a pigeon, but comes back. I hope others can give you better advice and good luck.

[SJP]

I'm having a similar problem with Lola.  Now the warm weather is here all the older kids congregate at the park in the evenings having impromptu bbqs and drop their crisps/Pringles/popcorn - you name it - they drop it and don't clear it up.

Lola gets her deaf ears on and she's off......the other night I hid from her (the other side of the park) just to see if she would even bother to realise that I was not around.  Not a chance, the popcorn was far too interesting.  In the end I had to go get her

Later on our walk however (away from said park), I did some recall with her and she was brilliant 

[sharonmansfield]

 A month ago I thought I had cracked it it was raining every night and I had the fields to myself and we had fantastic games of fetch with tennis balls and she came to me and sat and I really felt I was getting somewhere, one night I asked her to sit and stay she did and I could put her lead on and I understand the eureka moment as I had a grin from ear to ear at my clever dog and she got so much love and praise for being a special good girl, however we then went on holiday and on the beach she was off sniffing again and would not look to me running off to greet other people, totally embarrassing. The beach was edged by a golf course how exciting was that men in bright shirts hitting balls I was screaming like a banshee LEAVE as all the men stood looking at me 
I think like mcphees comment it is probably my fault as I allowed her to sniff instead of playing and calling her back when on a walk when she was younger.
 I am going to try all of the advice and try the long line and take a new toy ( brand new and just for walks) and take her out on my own without my other dog to see if I can keep her focus. I am excited about giving it a go.
Many thanks again for everyones comments  I have had a chuckle at some of them as I can totally sympathise, its nice to know I am not alone!!!!

[SkyeSue]

Can't offer any help, just sympathy 
Chloe, 14 months, has been virtually housebound the last 10 days due to her spay, but the last time she was off lead, she tried to attack a stunt kite that dive bombed onto "her" beach, and she also found the smallest hole in the fence that separates the dunes from the road to the campsite. Would she listen to me or the whistle? Would she hell 
I am taking the drastic measure of driving all the way down to York for Mr. Top Barks to sort her/us out (no pressure Mark, honest  )

[milly]

I only have experience with working dogs but basically if you recall you need to follow it up, every time, even if this means going after the dog yourself.
You should never ask twice because that way you're teaching the dog to ignore your first command and think that 'in a minute or not at all is good enough'.
Although its written for working dogs the Gundogs Grade 1 guide describes teaching recall amongst other things in detail and it's a really good book http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/shop/books/TrainingGuides/passinggradeone.htm
Although its aimed at working dogs some of the exericses are just as relevant for pet dogs.

[allylou]

I do sympathise with you.
If you look through some of my previous posts you will see that i have had lots of problems with recall with Marley who is 3 and a half.

However, by following some of the great advice i have had from this forum his recall has vastly improved. Through the winter i used a long line and since then have introduced a whistle and dropped the long line. We are still not completely there and i still limit his time off lead (still normally no more than 15 minutes at a time and this i have had to build up to gradually over the last 6-8 months).

 If you get a chance read through some of my old posts because you will find some clear explanations (far better than i could explain)about how to use a whistle/longline etc from Top Barks, Nicola and Trevor to name just a few.. Good luck 

[Nicola]

I only have experience with working dogs but basically if you recall you need to follow it up, every time, even if this means going after the dog yourself.
You should never ask twice because that way you're teaching the dog to ignore your first command and think that 'in a minute or not at all is good enough'.

Yup I agree, I had a running joke about wearing my running shoes when Alfie was in bogging off mode but I wasn't kidding, if he went and ignored my first recall I went after him and brought him back. It takes a lot of perseverance but it does work if you're utterly 100% consistent about it, you cannot let them get away with it even once or you put yourself back to square one again.

[mcphee]

I only have experience with working dogs but basically if you recall you need to follow it up, every time, even if this means going after the dog yourself.
You should never ask twice because that way you're teaching the dog to ignore your first command and think that 'in a minute or not at all is good enough'.
Although its written for working dogs the Gundogs Grade 1 guide describes teaching recall amongst other things in detail and it's a really good book http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/shop/books/TrainingGuides/passinggradeone.htm
Although its aimed at working dogs some of the exercises are just as relevant for pet dogs.

Thank you for this, I will get it. What occurs to me is that when you first own a dog like Rufus (if you do not know about COL), lots of people, even trainers, give you competing advice. I was told variously, not to gun dog train because it would brake his spirit (!), to let him off the lead as soon as he had had his jabs, but most relevant to your advice, NEVER to follow him into the hunt, even to retrieve him. I am supposed to walk off. I have been quite confused over the years. There are some places where I simply cannot reach him to get him out. Perhaps the suggested book will give me some better ideas. I hope it wont be too late.

[Nicola]

I only have experience with working dogs but basically if you recall you need to follow it up, every time, even if this means going after the dog yourself.
You should never ask twice because that way you're teaching the dog to ignore your first command and think that 'in a minute or not at all is good enough'.
Although its written for working dogs the Gundogs Grade 1 guide describes teaching recall amongst other things in detail and it's a really good book http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/shop/books/TrainingGuides/passinggradeone.htm
Although its aimed at working dogs some of the exercises are just as relevant for pet dogs.

Thank you for this, I will get it. What occurs to me is that when you first own a dog like Rufus (if you do not know about COL), lots of people, even trainers, give you competing advice. I was told variously, not to gun dog train because it would brake his spirit (!), to let him off the lead as soon as he had had his jabs, but most relevant to your advice, NEVER to follow him into the hunt, even to retrieve him. I am supposed to walk off. I have been quite confused over the years. There are some places where I simply cannot reach him to get him out. Perhaps the suggested book will give me some better ideas. I hope it wont be too late.

You're always going to get conflicting advice on things, especially dog training I've found! I've read plenty of books and spoken to plenty of trainers and I don't treat any of them as being 'the bible' or see it like I must follow all the advice in any of them to the letter. I take out the bits which I think apply to my dogs and our situation and discard the rest and I don't use the same methods for all my dogs, they're all individuals and I tailor their training accordingly.

For recall running in the opposite direction undoubtedly works for some dogs, Rodaidh for example never lets me out of his sight and would instantly come steaming after me but Alfie wouldn't have given a toss if I'd dropped off the face of the earth when he was in hunting mode. I could have run away screaming at the top of my lungs and juggling roast chickens and he wouldn't have stopped what he was doing to follow me. The only way to get him back to me was to go after him - this was the best method for him, it may not be the best method for some other dogs, like Rodaidh for example. It's down to the owner who knows their dog and how they react (or not!) to look at the options and then decide what suits them and their dog best.