Dave is being a wotsit

[Hurtwood Dogs]

Why can't I get both my two being hassle free at the same time??? I don't get it 

Normy has been dream dog recently she doesn't go far from us on walks at the moment and is listening to me really well and just being lovely

Dave, seems to have just discovered hunting at 2.5 years old    I've lost him twice this week for 20 mins each time. This is particularly infuriating as I've put lots of extra time into training him recently too so he can do lots of extra tricks, his lead walking is superb and recall when he wants to is marvelous. 'Hunting' is definitely something he's seen Normy doing and is trying his hand at, only he's rubbish at it and just gets himself lost then doesn't have the skills to find us again when he needs to

Think he's going to have to go on a long line for a bit which I really could do without at the moment - can't wait until that gets tangled around the buggy 

[SkyeSue]

oh Hannah, I've no advice I'm afraid, but I really for you  You must have the patience of a saint 
I'm sure someone will come along with sensible advice soon, but just wanted to say good luck.....I couldn't help but chuckle at the title btw...at least you've not lost your  sense of humour 

[joanne_v]

You have my utmost sympathy. Hunting is my one real problem with the dogs. Recall is otherwise spot on but the minute they catch a whiff off a bunny/squirrel/deer etc I'm stuffed and no amount of livercake helps. Krumble and Arwen dash off for no more than a few minutes so they dont bother me too much but I've been losing Lyra for anything up to 40 minutes so she spends a lot of time on lead and Ive just invested in a bell for her collar so I can at least hear where she is 

[Cockertime Blues]

My sympathies too.  (Am now so nostalgic for the days when I had a lab trundling 4 paces behind me at all times.)

I never worry about Mollie as she charges around being busy but keeps us in sight.  Alfie likes to go birding as we all know.  TBH they've been restricted to the beaches for exercise for past 2 months as all the fields round us are sheep or set-aside and it's just not right for me to let them go off where so many birds of species that are in decline are trying to nest/raise their young.  On the beach I get him to "leave" crows or scorries about 60% of the time (I think it depends how tired he is).  Not great.  (Off to hide from Nic now.)

Alfie once bogged off for 40 minutes when out with OH, but most he's ever been gone with me is 5 minutes or so maybe and that's always in woods.  If we're just walking off-lead I sound like a parrot as it seems he needs reminding all the time.  In fact I could do with a parrot on my shoulder - just teach it the right words.

What I can't figure out is:  you're not supposed to keep shouting or whistling for them to come back as it becomes background noise.  But how long are you supposed to wait (panicking) before you whistle again?

[SkyeSue]

My sympathies too.  (Am now so nostalgic for the days when I had a lab trundling 4 paces behind me at all times.)

What I can't figure out is:  you're not supposed to keep shouting or whistling for them to come back as it becomes background noise.  But how long are you supposed to wait (panicking) before you whistle again?

Often wondered about this myself 

[Hurtwood Dogs]

My sympathies too.  (Am now so nostalgic for the days when I had a lab trundling 4 paces behind me at all times.)

What I can't figure out is:  you're not supposed to keep shouting or whistling for them to come back as it becomes background noise.  But how long are you supposed to wait (panicking) before you whistle again?

Often wondered about this myself 

I've always taken the view that once they're out of sight lost , it's best to keep calling regularly. But I don't do it if they can see me, I always try and catch them on the return - makes me feel good, makes them feel good, we're all happy .

He did make me laugh the other night though. We'd been yelling, at dusk in the forest for him for about 25 mins. Normy who's usually pretty good at finding him was fed up and refusing to go and look for him and huffing quite a lot so OH and I were about to split up and take separate paths to give us a better chance of finding him. When suddenly, he appeared . There he was charging up the path to me, tongue flying in the wind white flag tail in the low spoiler position, running back to me as fast as his little legs would carry him. My heart melted and I armed myself with a handful of treats, arms out to him, praising his socks off...........

but he ran straight past me and off up another path at high speed - it was as if we didn't even exist. It was only sheer luck that we'd seen him as the scent trail he was following just happened to take him past us  15 minutes later he did rejoin us but by then, my heart was firmly unmelted and treats very much back in my pocket

You have my utmost sympathy. Hunting is my one real problem with the dogs. Recall is otherwise spot on but the minute they catch a whiff off a bunny/squirrel/deer etc I'm stuffed and no amount of livercake helps. Krumble and Arwen dash off for no more than a few minutes so they dont bother me too much but I've been losing Lyra for anything up to 40 minutes so she spends a lot of time on lead and Ive just invested in a bell for her collar so I can at least hear where she is 

SO feel for you, she sounds very like Normy was.. if it's any consolation at 4.5 years old (and quite a few more grey hairs for me) Normy is now brilliant and only occasionally disappears for 5 mins max and as I've only had her two years, with any luck Lyra will settle before that age. I'll keep everything crossed for you that she does anyway 

Hannah xxx

[SkyeSue]

He did make me laugh the other night though. We'd been yelling, at dusk in the forest for him for about 25 mins. Normy who's usually pretty good at finding him was fed up and refusing to go and look for him and huffing quite a lot so OH and I were about to split up and take separate paths to give us a better chance of finding him. When suddenly, he appeared . There he was charging up the path to me, tongue flying in the wind white flag tail in the low spoiler position, running back to me as fast as his little legs would carry him. My heart melted and I armed myself with a handful of treats, arms out to him, praising his socks off...........

but he ran straight past me and off up another path at high speed - it was as if we didn't even exist. It was only sheer luck that we'd seen him as the scent trail he was following just happened to take him past us  15 minutes later he did rejoin us but by then, my heart was firmly unmelted and treats very much back in my pocket

Almost choked on my coffee laughing at this  Chloe did exactly the same thing in the forest yesterday, charging towards me as I'm kneeling down, arms outstretched, livercake at the ready, squealing in a silly high-pitched voice good girl, good girl, and she belted straight past me. I felt like a complete numpty - anyone watching would have laughed their socks off 

[Hurtwood Dogs]

He did make me laugh the other night though. We'd been yelling, at dusk in the forest for him for about 25 mins. Normy who's usually pretty good at finding him was fed up and refusing to go and look for him and huffing quite a lot so OH and I were about to split up and take separate paths to give us a better chance of finding him. When suddenly, he appeared . There he was charging up the path to me, tongue flying in the wind white flag tail in the low spoiler position, running back to me as fast as his little legs would carry him. My heart melted and I armed myself with a handful of treats, arms out to him, praising his socks off...........

but he ran straight past me and off up another path at high speed - it was as if we didn't even exist. It was only sheer luck that we'd seen him as the scent trail he was following just happened to take him past us  15 minutes later he did rejoin us but by then, my heart was firmly unmelted and treats very much back in my pocket

Almost choked on my coffee laughing at this  Chloe did exactly the same thing in the forest yesterday, charging towards me as I'm kneeling down, arms outstretched, livercake at the ready, squealing in a silly high-pitched voice good girl, good girl, and she belted straight past me. I felt like a complete numpty - anyone watching would have laughed their socks off 

 

They're gits aren't they? ph34

[mcphee]

Oh Dave, I would swap you for Rufus sometimes. I can't tell you how good it is to learn that someone else is confused by the hunting recall. I fully understand Topbarks advice not to call Rufus if I know he won't come because it is reinforcing the disobedience. But yesterday was the limit with an hour in the maize with his Norfolk terrier friend Bubbles. The other dog owners kept saying "oh you poor thing have you lost your dog?" No, the little blighter is up to his old tricks. Rabbits in all directions and squeals of delight.  He even comes to within about 10 feet, sees I'm ok and b*****s of again 3 times! If I don't call him I get funny looks; if I do, I am ignored. So it was the beach at 6.30 this morning. One very subdued cocker, no seagulling, no interest in the ball, walking close to mummy, I thought he was ill. He did run off to go in the posh gardens at Aldwick , but there was a new wall thing and he couldn't get in so I called once and ignored and walked off. He did come back, but I am not sure what he would have done in his normal beach state. All this because he is addicted to bunny chasing in the maize. It makes Dave look angelic. As for Normy, well she is wonderful. And no, he is not ill, because as soon as we drew up outside he was hyper cocker, and the cat has been relocated several times. But.. he is clean.

[supergirl]

Sympathies here two - Roly, now nicknamed "jack the lad" was a complete mummy's boy never going very far from me at all, and my main concern used to be Misha going off on a trail.  However in her defence, she always came back.  Roly though has changed overnight and has definitely discoved hunting - this week having killed two squirrels, the third rescued by me as I managed to get hold of Roly - so no more walks in the woods now.  I think its the time of year where there are loads of baby rabbits & squirrels around to tempt them.

Mine are trained to whistle and as I was quite close by Roly and his latest catch, I could see how much notice he was taking of the whistle - absolutely none.  By contrast Misha was an absolute saint.  I'm really hoping that its just a phase, but I think I'm on a losing bet with that one, doesn't help that he is incredibly fit at the moment, and will happily run around for a couple of hours without pausing (even when its been so hot).

Separate dog walking at the moment to see if that will help - might even go to the beach more often (strangely mine seem to find the beach a bit boring???), but at least they can't disappear.

[Helen]

He did make me laugh the other night though. We'd been yelling, at dusk in the forest for him for about 25 mins. Normy who's usually pretty good at finding him was fed up and refusing to go and look for him and huffing quite a lot so OH and I were about to split up and take separate paths to give us a better chance of finding him. When suddenly, he appeared . There he was charging up the path to me, tongue flying in the wind white flag tail in the low spoiler position, running back to me as fast as his little legs would carry him. My heart melted and I armed myself with a handful of treats, arms out to him, praising his socks off...........

but he ran straight past me and off up another path at high speed - it was as if we didn't even exist. It was only sheer luck that we'd seen him as the scent trail he was following just happened to take him past us  15 minutes later he did rejoin us but by then, my heart was firmly unmelted and treats very much back in my pocket

Almost choked on my coffee laughing at this  Chloe did exactly the same thing in the forest yesterday, charging towards me as I'm kneeling down, arms outstretched, livercake at the ready, squealing in a silly high-pitched voice good girl, good girl, and she belted straight past me. I felt like a complete numpty - anyone watching would have laughed their socks off 

 

They're gits aren't they? ph34

I'm with Top Barks, I have never called and called and called - just do it once and then nothing.  Although Dave has the worst sense of direction ever known to doG so that may not help him   When he's full of adrenaline and can't hear you it's not easy to break through to them - you have to not introduce any level of approval for the chase, and to turn quietly away and walk off in the opposite direction.  I think you have to stop him before he starts, so this means whistle training, and keeping them CLOSE to you ie within about 30 feet.  There is a natural distance for each dog and  once they're through that you have little hope of getting them back if they're on a scent.  If Jarvis ever went too far, once I got him back to me, he went on the lead so his cognitive awareness was back on me (and the sossij in my pocket) and we started again.  Once he was focussed, back off the lead, stop whistle and recall whistle for the rest of the walk.  And although I'm all for positive training I will use the VOD to get focus back on me, sometimes it's the only thing that will break through the trance.

And Sue, don't let  her do the flypast!  She'll interpret a recall as coming 'near you'  not 'to you' or as if you're encouraging her on.   Once she's on the way back and has eye contact with you, sharply change direction and walk quickly and call her again firmly, and ONLY give her lots of praise when she's performing the behaviour you want and that is right back at your feet, not 20 feet away coming towards you.

McPhee, put him on a long line if you have to go near the maize or just don't walk there if he's uncontrollable.  I must admit I find his antics frustrating and I don't even own him 

[Nicola]

. When suddenly, he appeared . There he was charging up the path to me, tongue flying in the wind white flag tail in the low spoiler position, running back to me as fast as his little legs would carry him. My heart melted and I armed myself with a handful of treats, arms out to him, praising his socks off...........

but he ran straight past me and off up another path at high speed - it was as if we didn't even exist. It was only sheer luck that we'd seen him as the scent trail he was following just happened to take him past us  15 minutes later he did rejoin us but by then, my heart was firmly unmelted and treats very much back in my pocket

The way you wrote that really did make me laugh   BUT I agree with Helen that you can't let them do that. Alfie tried to do it once with me and I nipped it in the bud pronto. I started recalling him (when he was nearby and focussing on me) with my back to various walls, trees, hedges etc. so he couldn't get past me and on the couple of occasions he tried it again I knew he was going to do it from about 10 feet away and he got a full on VOD and I stepped out towards him which brought his focus back onto me sharpish. He got praise and fuss when he was sitting at my feet looking at me as I'd asked him to do.

I don't agree with calling and calling either, my lot get called once and if they don't obey I go after them. I don't ever let them ignore me, it was the big mistake I made with Alfie at the beginning and it was a dear one. The key to this is not letting them go too far from you; for new pups like Caoimhe the limit is about 10 feet; for Alfie who knows what recall is but chooses to be selective about obeying it it was about 20 feet to begin with as any further than that and my influence started to wane. For Tills and Ro who have pretty much perfect recall they can go to 40-50 feet in general hunting and I will send them further if they're working, neither of them will go too far from me anyway though unless I send them.

It is tiring and frustrating keeping on top of them all the time, I had to watch Alfie like a hawk and I knew what his 'I'm offski' signals were so as soon as I saw them I was able to intercept. If I missed it by that split second and he started to trot off he got a very loud and very sharp 'AH AH!' and I was right after him to bring him back - all this involved was running towards him to get his attention and then calling him back to me, usually while then running backwards to encourage him and once he'd done that I would do a short heelwork session with him to get the focus back on me and then the magic tennis ball would appear and he'd get a game of fetch. If he knew I had a ball on me he was generally much better at sticking close. Also as Helen says he NEVER got praise unless he'd done exactly what I'd asked him to, if you start lavishing praise on the dog when they're 15 feet away from you that's as far as they'll think they have to come.

[mcphee]

He did make me laugh the other night though. We'd been yelling, at dusk in the forest for him for about 25 mins. Normy who's usually pretty good at finding him was fed up and refusing to go and look for him and huffing quite a lot so OH and I were about to split up and take separate paths to give us a better chance of finding him. When suddenly, he appeared . There he was charging up the path to me, tongue flying in the wind white flag tail in the low spoiler position, running back to me as fast as his little legs would carry him. My heart melted and I armed myself with a handful of treats, arms out to him, praising his socks off...........

but he ran straight past me and off up another path at high speed - it was as if we didn't even exist. It was only sheer luck that we'd seen him as the scent trail he was following just happened to take him past us  15 minutes later he did rejoin us but by then, my heart was firmly unmelted and treats very much back in my pocket

Almost choked on my coffee laughing at this  Chloe did exactly the same thing in the forest yesterday, charging towards me as I'm kneeling down, arms outstretched, livercake at the ready, squealing in a silly high-pitched voice good girl, good girl, and she belted straight past me. I felt like a complete numpty - anyone watching would have laughed their socks off 

 

They're gits aren't they? ph34

I'm with Top Barks, I have never called and called and called - just do it once and then nothing.  Although Dave has the worst sense of direction ever known to doG so that may not help him   When he's full of adrenaline and can't hear you it's not easy to break through to them - you have to not introduce any level of approval for the chase, and to turn quietly away and walk off in the opposite direction.  I think you have to stop him before he starts, so this means whistle training, and keeping them CLOSE to you ie within about 30 feet.  There is a natural distance for each dog and  once they're through that you have little hope of getting them back if they're on a scent.  If Jarvis ever went too far, once I got him back to me, he went on the lead so his cognitive awareness was back on me (and the sossij in my pocket) and we started again.  Once he was focussed, back off the lead, stop whistle and recall whistle for the rest of the walk.  And although I'm all for positive training I will use the VOD to get focus back on me, sometimes it's the only thing that will break through the trance.

And Sue, don't let  her do the flypast!  She'll interpret a recall as coming 'near you'  not 'to you' or as if you're encouraging her on.   Once she's on the way back and has eye contact with you, sharply change direction and walk quickly and call her again firmly, and ONLY give her lots of praise when she's performing the behaviour you want and that is right back at your feet, not 20 feet away coming towards you.

McPhee, put him on a long line if you have to go near the maize or just don't walk there if he's uncontrollable.  I must admit I find his antics frustrating and I don't even own him 

Livercake. I do own him and I am beyond frustration. I assume you mean the 30 feet line, not the retractable. The main problem maize field is next to  all our favourite walks, and they do not cut it to the end on November! It has ruined my life since they ploughed the field last year- the first time in 20 years. There are several other fields locally too, so I use the retractable when I know I cannot let him off. Do I hold the line all the time, or let it go and tread on it if he starts to go in? Mind you the little s*d usually has a terminal sulk when I put the line on, so he'll probably mope round the walk this pm.

[joanne_v]

Still peeing myself at that post hannah  that sounds just like what lily would do.

I try not to call out more than once with mine but Lyra has very poor sense of direction so I do tend to call her more but only use the come command when she's in view and then recall her as normal. She only gets a treat if she comes back quickly.

[Helen]

He did make me laugh the other night though. We'd been yelling, at dusk in the forest for him for about 25 mins. Normy who's usually pretty good at finding him was fed up and refusing to go and look for him and huffing quite a lot so OH and I were about to split up and take separate paths to give us a better chance of finding him. When suddenly, he appeared . There he was charging up the path to me, tongue flying in the wind white flag tail in the low spoiler position, running back to me as fast as his little legs would carry him. My heart melted and I armed myself with a handful of treats, arms out to him, praising his socks off...........

but he ran straight past me and off up another path at high speed - it was as if we didn't even exist. It was only sheer luck that we'd seen him as the scent trail he was following just happened to take him past us  15 minutes later he did rejoin us but by then, my heart was firmly unmelted and treats very much back in my pocket

Almost choked on my coffee laughing at this  Chloe did exactly the same thing in the forest yesterday, charging towards me as I'm kneeling down, arms outstretched, livercake at the ready, squealing in a silly high-pitched voice good girl, good girl, and she belted straight past me. I felt like a complete numpty - anyone watching would have laughed their socks off 

 

They're gits aren't they? ph34

I'm with Top Barks, I have never called and called and called - just do it once and then nothing.  Although Dave has the worst sense of direction ever known to doG so that may not help him   When he's full of adrenaline and can't hear you it's not easy to break through to them - you have to not introduce any level of approval for the chase, and to turn quietly away and walk off in the opposite direction.  I think you have to stop him before he starts, so this means whistle training, and keeping them CLOSE to you ie within about 30 feet.  There is a natural distance for each dog and  once they're through that you have little hope of getting them back if they're on a scent.  If Jarvis ever went too far, once I got him back to me, he went on the lead so his cognitive awareness was back on me (and the sossij in my pocket) and we started again.  Once he was focussed, back off the lead, stop whistle and recall whistle for the rest of the walk.  And although I'm all for positive training I will use the VOD to get focus back on me, sometimes it's the only thing that will break through the trance.

And Sue, don't let  her do the flypast!  She'll interpret a recall as coming 'near you'  not 'to you' or as if you're encouraging her on.   Once she's on the way back and has eye contact with you, sharply change direction and walk quickly and call her again firmly, and ONLY give her lots of praise when she's performing the behaviour you want and that is right back at your feet, not 20 feet away coming towards you.

McPhee, put him on a long line if you have to go near the maize or just don't walk there if he's uncontrollable.  I must admit I find his antics frustrating and I don't even own him 

Livercake. I do own him and I am beyond frustration. I assume you mean the 30 feet line, not the retractable. The main problem maize field is next to  all our favourite walks, and they do not cut it to the end on November! It has ruined my life since they ploughed the field last year- the first time in 20 years. There are several other fields locally too, so I use the retractable when I know I cannot let him off. Do I hold the line all the time, or let it go and tread on it if he starts to go in? Mind you the little s*d usually has a terminal sulk when I put the line on, so he'll probably mope round the walk this pm.

his love is bunnies, and this time of year it's incredibly self-rewarding for him and incredibly frustrating for you. 

is there anything else Rufus loves (food, squeaky toy etc?)