Author Topic: Shell shocked- the rehabilitation begins.  (Read 1082 times)

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Offline mcphee

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Shell shocked- the rehabilitation begins.
« on: July 14, 2009, 07:18:06 PM »
I am suffering from shell shock after Rufus's first outside training session with a gundog specialist. I bought the harness, and thought he looked smart after the groomers this lunchtime. I picked up my frined who brought her sprocker bitch and JRT. We drove up into the deep beautiful country north of Midhurst. We picked up the trainer and one of her many dogs, a beautiful working cocker bitch, golden, called Mouse. It was quite traumatic to realise just how bad rufus is, in terms of his complete lack of focus on me. We did the homework exercises, and then went of for the walk. By this time Rufus, who had been a bit diffident, was in true hunting mode. I was not allowed to call him as she wanted to assess his checking in response.She said it is quite good, which means there is hope! Of course it was nose down and bog of in the opposite direction. I was not even allowed to  call, look or turn round and we walked in the opposite direction. He went up a drive of a posh lodge, into the banks but I had to walk on. The trainer went back to ensure the line wasn't caught. She was pleased that he had been looking for me, but got a bit tangled, so he was allowed to run to me with one call. He was so enjoying himself by this time he went straight past, and off on a hunt. Again, walk the other way. Each time he did come, although once she went in to the undergrowth and told him off. However, on about the 5th change of direction (luckily we were in the middle of nowhere), he went into a large patch of brambles and bracken. When he did come out he was full of the joys of spring and without the harness and longline, so the rest of the walk was off lead. Much of the same, but she did notice the forays were getting shorter between check in. No calling and only praise when he actually stopped with me. She observed him closely and explained the hunt as his form of mental stimulation, and the more exercise he got, the more he would need mental stimilation, hence viscious circle. He is not an easy spaniel.
I won't bore you with all the back to basics stuff for home, but it's a bit of bootcamp so he sees me as boss not friend. She says he has too much of my attention at home and doesn't need it when he is out, cos he knows I'll be there.
It was very tough, as I have got so used to worrying about him. She says I must not call and mollicoddle him. The exercises are about rewarding him for looking at me, and earned rewards. By the end of the session he was covered in burs mud and soaking. She said he was a true worker, but keeping him and treating him as a pet, even agility wasn't enough for him. She says he is not an easy case, but if we work hard, he could be doing field trials in 6 months. Dog knows what closing the dog flap is going to be like. Wish me luck! By the way she says no second dog until he is fully rehabilitated into proper cocker mode.

Offline Helen

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Re: Shell shocked- the rehabilitation begins.
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2009, 07:45:30 PM »
do you WANT to do field trials?  I know I couldn't handle the pressure  :lol2:

Just take small steps, I think what you really want to gain from this is a dog that works WITH you  ;)

I fully agree with the ignoring and walking the other way, of course it has to be safe for you to do so - I found our best training sessions when Jarv was younger were the ones where I said very little and he had to concentrate and work with me.  It will happen - just make sure you find your 'happy medium' - where you are satisfied with your boy's training and interaction with you. 

Good luck!

ps while it sounds lovely I don't want a working cocker that is trained to the max - sometimes it takes all their individual personality away, I want a few quirks left that make my dog who he is - if you can do both then fantastic!
helen & jarvis x


Offline Nicola

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Re: Shell shocked- the rehabilitation begins.
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2009, 08:17:10 PM »
I'm glad it went well. I would take the 'field trials in 6 months' thing with a pinch of salt though, it takes a huge amount of training and he'd have to be shot over, be retrieving live game etc. You never know though, you could have a good working dog on your hands ;)

The 'too much attention at home' is a very gundog trainery thing to say, it's why most 'proper' gundog trainers keep their dogs outside in kennels, they get little interaction other than training with the idea being that if they don't get to see you much they'll be more eager to be with you when they do.

I'd be interested to know why she she went after him and told him off one time after ignoring him all the others... why just that time?
Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline Helen

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Re: Shell shocked- the rehabilitation begins.
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2009, 08:30:43 PM »
I'd be interested to know why she she went after him and told him off one time after ignoring him all the others... why just that time?

that's just what I was going to ask   :lol2:
helen & jarvis x


Offline Top Barks

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Re: Shell shocked- the rehabilitation begins.
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2009, 08:46:23 PM »
sounds exactly like the work I have been doing with Sue and Chloe this week lots of work on trying to get Chloe to check in and acknowledge Sue's presence.
Rabbit covered tennis balls had her full attention this morning. :005:
As for too much attention at home, I think my lot blow that one out of the water. ;) All my dogs live in and get right royal treatment from me and Mrs TB and I think those that know me and have been on meets with me will back me up when I say I hardly struggle to keep my dogs focus when out.
I think it is essential that you are a friend as well as providing guidance to your dogs.
Everything i do is built on trust, consistency and being the provider of good things to my dogs.
I am a very valuable resource to them and all though it is anthropomorphising a little I hope I'm their buddy too.

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline mcphee

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Re: Shell shocked- the rehabilitation begins.
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2009, 08:49:25 PM »
Ha! Quite right. I have no intention of doing field trials.  :lol2: LOL I think she was trying to say that Rufus has ths ability and could do with some structured stimulation, but hasn't been trained, and to give me some idea of time scales ;). I just want to enjoy walks with him. I intend to take it slowly. I have used the crate tonight, for a while to give him some time out when a friend who likes to play hyper games with him arrived. He was fine and I let him out so he could greet politely. He got covered in mud and cut a pad slightly on the walk so has spent the evening washing. Nicola, I think she went in to get him because she didn't think my friend and I were right that he was barking when hunting, and thought he might be caught up. I know his barks and it was rabbit. Livercake it's funny, because the reason I did not do gun dog training in the first place was that I was told it might break his spirit. I love my cocker and just want him to want to be with me on walks. I will now try to get a better harness he cannot shed, and will continue with the long line. There is no way I am doing anything which I think may distub him! I think there are lots of things which I was told which may improve his focus, and which I can practice each day without too much difficulty. The style is quite forceful for my taste. However Mouse was incredible, dashing off into the hedges and coming out. She demonstrated her focus which was total. If I achieve half of that I will be pleased.

Offline Nicola

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Re: Shell shocked- the rehabilitation begins.
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2009, 09:01:25 PM »
As for too much attention at home, I think my lot blow that one out of the water. ;) All my dogs live in and get right royal treatment from me and Mrs TB and I think those that know me and have been on meets with me will back me up when I say I hardly struggle to keep my dogs focus when out.
I think it is essential that you are a friend as well as providing guidance to your dogs.
Everything i do is built on trust, consistency and being the provider of good things to my dogs.
I am a very valuable resource to them and all though it is anthropomorphising a little I hope I'm their buddy too.

I definitely agree with this which is why although my dogs work and hopefully we'll trial one day they ain't gonna live in kennels! I've had a few 'discussions' with folk on shoots about my dogs living in the house as 'spoiled pets' (their words); they can see that I don't exactly have a problem getting Rodaidh to focus on me and do his job though and Caoimhe is exactly the same.
Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline Helen

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Re: Shell shocked- the rehabilitation begins.
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2009, 09:04:11 PM »
As for too much attention at home, I think my lot blow that one out of the water. ;) All my dogs live in and get right royal treatment from me and Mrs TB and I think those that know me and have been on meets with me will back me up when I say I hardly struggle to keep my dogs focus when out.
I think it is essential that you are a friend as well as providing guidance to your dogs.
Everything i do is built on trust, consistency and being the provider of good things to my dogs.
I am a very valuable resource to them and all though it is anthropomorphising a little I hope I'm their buddy too.

I definitely agree with this which is why although my dogs work and hopefully we'll trial one day they ain't gonna live in kennels! I've had a few 'discussions' with folk on shoots about my dogs living in the house as 'spoiled pets' (their words); they can see that I don't exactly have a problem getting Rodaidh to focus on me and do his job though and Caoimhe is exactly the same.

the best working dogs I know are 'inside' dogs  ;)  and now Jarv's gamekeeper breeder has relented and his latest pup (who he claims is the best dog he's ever trained) is an indoors girl.  Another outdated theory methinks  :lol2:
helen & jarvis x


Offline mcphee

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Re: Shell shocked- the rehabilitation begins.
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2009, 09:18:25 PM »
As for too much attention at home, I think my lot blow that one out of the water. ;) All my dogs live in and get right royal treatment from me and Mrs TB and I think those that know me and have been on meets with me will back me up when I say I hardly struggle to keep my dogs focus when out.
I think it is essential that you are a friend as well as providing guidance to your dogs.
Everything i do is built on trust, consistency and being the provider of good things to my dogs.
I am a very valuable resource to them and all though it is anthropomorphising a little I hope I'm their buddy too.

I definitely agree with this which is why although my dogs work and hopefully we'll trial one day they ain't gonna live in kennels! I've had a few 'discussions' with folk on shoots about my dogs living in the house as 'spoiled pets' (their words); they can see that I don't exactly have a problem getting Rodaidh to focus on me and do his job though and Caoimhe is exactly the same.

the best working dogs I know are 'inside' dogs  ;)  and now Jarv's gamekeeper breeder has relented and his latest pup (who he claims is the best dog he's ever trained) is an indoors girl.  Another outdated theory methinks  :lol2:
Hooray, because part of the joy of owning my darling is that he shares my life, including my home with me. His mummy was kennelled ,only allowed in the house when they were there, and not at night. I felt so sorry for her, and knew I would not do that to Rufus. The training for focus exercises will start tomorrow. I think he is quite tired having run so far in a strange place. Just going online to decide on a harness. Thank you for all your contributions.

Offline Crazy Cocker Gang

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Re: Shell shocked- the rehabilitation begins.
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2009, 09:23:48 PM »
I think people that need to keep their dogs outside and have very little interaction with them except when there training them are pretty rubbish trainers  ph34r

If the only reason your dog is working for you is because thats all it has in its life than thats really sad  :'(

Some working dog owners wont even let there dogs have toys because it means they can make some entertainment themselves, doesnt say much about how interesting they are  ::)

Although I have been in some outdoor kennels and came away feeling sorry for my dogs having to live in my house as the kennels are better!!

And some outdoor dogs do get plently of time with there owners when there not training or working.

I like mine to be dual purpose dogs and their main job is my pet  ;)