Show vs Working - what's the difference?

[Helen]

there was a question previously on this thread about appearance and evolving....the workers look evolved to be "fit for purpose" ie long feathered ears that swoosh the scent around their noses, small compact bodies to get through and under cover, deep strong chests for stamina, square muzzles for picking up birds - with the 'watered down' pet versions in years to come where the dog has no need to be fit for it's original purpose it will be interesting to see how the look evolves - rangier leggier versions with shorter and shorter ears and snipey muzzles? This will further accentuate the split (within the split)  in the breed

Along with temperament and health I always look at lines - there are some lines I wouldn't touch with a barge pole and some I really would love pups from 
 
It seems you've found a breeder that is happy to sell to the pet market and you've found the type you want - I wish you well with it 

[mooching]

If you;ve done your research into all aspects of the breed and your happy that its the right dog for you then theres no reason why you shouldnt go for it.    

Thank you.

I'm not rushing into anything - as I said in my OP the plan is to get a cocker in the next year or so.

My dearly best beloved CKC boy is in the final stages of Congestive Heart Failure, and whilst he survived a major crisis in January (hospitalised for 4 days, on serious round the clock drugs and oxygen) and is stable at the moment, his cardiologist says he has weeks, months or possibly up to a year at the absolute maximum. (I joined COL when he was admitted, when I was in shock and had even lost my appetite - totally unknown for me). In order to cope with the impending extreme distress that my family and I will face when he goes, I am trying to focus on moving on, developing a passion for my next dog, wanting to have another canine companion after Flinty passes (I grew up with dogs, have had dogs most of my married life, and function far better with one than without one) yet one that is totally different from him and who will give me a new outlook and zest for life, and perhaps some new interests too. My 16yo daughter is doing her AS levels this year, and A2s next year. Originally I was hoping beyond all hope that he could possibly last till she'd taken all her A2s, but right now we will be lucky if he is around for her ASs. My son is 20yo, in his final year at Uni, and will cope better, my husband will be fine too - it's my daughter and me who will be affected the most.

So, in an attempt to fully accept the current situation, and to see past the sadness we will be facing when he goes, I am trying to look ahead, to look forward. (I originally registered on this forum the day that Flinty was admitted to the veterinary hospital)

My next step will be to visit a couple of breeders (show and working) and meet the dogs. I've located a working cocker breeder that I think I like, but not yet a show cocker breeder. I'd like to find another working cocker breeder too, so that I can compare the two. I've narrowed down the working colours that I like; not yet the show cocker colours. When I've done that, I can look for breeders to visit.

[MaggieR]

Good luck with your search - and whatever your decision it certainly sounds like you're more than prepared to do whatever you need to make you next dog a happy one   Here's hoping that your current little fella can go on for a long time yet 

[HeatherandBenjy]

My next step will be to visit a couple of breeders (show and working) and meet the dogs. I've located a working cocker breeder that I think I like, but not yet a show cocker breeder. I'd like to find another working cocker breeder too, so that I can compare the two. I've narrowed down the working colours that I like; not yet the show cocker colours. When I've done that, I can look for breeders to visit.

I don't know where you're based in the country, but maybe you could come along to one of the meet ups and that way meet lots of cockers, both show and workers and see them all in action! 

[mooching]

I'm on the Hampshire/Dorset border, so, depending on where the meet is, that might be possible. Shame I'm too late for the Fritham one, that would definitely have been reachable for me.

[JohnW]

Have to say this thread has been very intersting to read, We have show and Workers, and TBH my laziest dog is my older girl willow who by definition is the ideal bred working cocker, being from extremely sound working lines and coming from a large shooting estate. The point is there is no guarentee from any breeder that your dog will turn out to be Lazy or hyper, family situations May play a contributing role in this as  I have noticed, especially families with younger children as kids can wind any dog up and the dog will only react to his/her surroundings and enviroment, be it working or show bred.

In an ideal world dog breeding would be Black and white but society changes everyday and so do its demands, Its all very well that working cockers should only be bred by working kennels with a view to hunt over the winter months and this may have suited the status quo for many generations but on the whole we now do more with our dogs now than we used to I.E agility, flyball, Canix etc and wether you think its positive or Destructive for the future of the Breed our dogs have to adapt to what we as a society need from them. We never know what is around the corner and remember what happened to thousands of poor Fox hounds when the hunting ban came in, society can be so fickle and its these actions that can be the downfall of any breed as has happened in the past.

Conformity is paramount to any breed be it working or Show, this is probably why we have had problems in the past with certain breeders putting god knows what into the lines, to the point where we dont even know if the modern working cocker is actually a cocker at all now. Show Cockers can be just as robust as the working side given the opportunity and while they may not have that scenting drive they are just as agile and fit. Many working breeders do scoff at show people at times but TBH they can actually learn alot from many a good show owner/breeder.

[Helen]

Conformity is paramount to any breed be it working or Show, this is probably why we have had problems in the past with certain breeders putting god knows what into the lines, to the point where we dont even know if the modern working cocker is actually a cocker at all now.

that may be true of SOME lines John which are likely to be the ones I avoid like the plague and which I despair of    

Personally I think that breeders should include conformation to at least some aspects of the cocker breed standard as one of their pre-requisites for breeding - I don't see the point of breeding from working cockers that don't even look like spaniels 

[mooching]

FWIW, as part of my research I fully intend to look into the agility/flyball aspect. I had never heard of flyball before, and would have to be trained myself before teaching a dog - but it does look interesting and exciting, and it looks like it would be a good thing for both my and any prospective doggie that I get. I don't know if there are any flyball training classes in my area, but will definitely be looking into it. There are agility classes, and I will probably be phoning a couple to ask if I can come and observe sometime.

[Cockertime Blues]

And a working cocker's drive is one reason that I'd want one - so why would I want to remove it?

I'm just wondering why you'd want a working cocker's drive if you don't intend to go hunting with him?

That drive can be pretty hard to handle at times.

I don't think looks come into it much as you will love your dog and the way he looks, whatever you choose.  Just my opinion and all the best with whatever you choose.  You've certainly done your research - far more than I ever did.

As for agility, I've just found out this morning who the culprit was jumping up on the kitchen counter and nosing open the breadbin - yup, our show cocker.

[mooching]

I'm just wondering why you'd want a working cocker's drive if you don't intend to go hunting with him?

So in your opinion the only way of properly using a working cocker's drive is to take him/her hunting?

Does that not mean then that their drive only gets used in part of autumn and winter (during the hunting season)?

[Helen]

I'm just wondering why you'd want a working cocker's drive if you don't intend to go hunting with him?

So in your opinion the only way of properly using a working cocker's drive is to take him/her hunting?

Does that not mean then that their drive only gets used in part of autumn and winter (during the hunting season)?

mine get's trained all year round

[mooching]

mine get's trained all year round

What does that training involve?

[Helen]

mine get's trained all year round

What does that training involve?

all aspects of general gundog training  - obedience, retrieving, whistle training etc

BTW I've done agility with my working cocker - he enjoyed it to a point but it felt like he was doing it for me.  The difference between his demeanour doing agility and his sheer love of working is undeniable in his case.

[Nicola]

I'm just wondering why you'd want a working cocker's drive if you don't intend to go hunting with him?

So in your opinion the only way of properly using a working cocker's drive is to take him/her hunting?

Does that not mean then that their drive only gets used in part of autumn and winter (during the hunting season)?

mine get's trained all year round

As do mine, we use the 'off' season to work on anything that cropped up during the shooting season, the spring/summer is when field tests and scurries are held and they also go pigeon and rabbit shooting.

[mooching]

all aspects of general gundog training  - obedience, retrieving, whistle training etc

But can this not be done without actually hunting? The kind of thing you mention isn't just for gundog training, surely, but would form part of normal dog training?