Update from a mucky pup - MORE ADVICE PLEEEASE....

[Geordietyke]

Hi all.  As some of you may know, I've been having problems with Odie, who will be 12 weeks this Monday.  Initially I had problems with him toiletting in his cage (both wee and poo) at night and daytimes when left alone.  He now sleeps all night with no problems (and doesn't ask to go out till 5.30-6.00am) which was good I think for a 10 week pup!   

However, I STILL have major problems with him doing a poo in his cage whenever he is left alone (any amount of time from 5 mins to 1 hour - the most I've ever left him so far).  I have diligently followed all the advice previously given (plus the stickies on here).  I have changed from using a puppy pen to giving him a small space with bed only but he still poos in his bed.  This has happened for 4 weeks now (that's 28 days of cleaning poo from pup/floor/cage once or twice a day  ).  It's more difficult with 2 youngsters to deal with straight from school (tea etc) coming in to this every time.  I'm sure people will tell me it will get better but you would have thought that after over 60 times of doing this, he should have twigged I was coming back each time!  Any further suggestions desperately needed...   

[Anita D]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before.

Do you feed him at set times?  I saw something on television a while back that said that set meal times gives more regular toileting habits whereas free feeding can make for more erratic toileting.

Also have you spoken to your vet?

Good luck, I feel for you. 

[Geordietyke]

Yes, I feed him 3 times a day (I know they say 4 times at 12 weeks but he doesn't have a huge appetite!).  He is like clockwork for his 7.30am poo and I suppose the same for the one he does in his cage at school run time (3.00pm).  It's just getting him out of toiletting in his cage when I'm not there.  I always spend 15-20 mins with him playing outside before I have to leave him in his cage alone but he won't do a poo then, will save it for when I have to go out.    I have also put him in his cage beforehand and 'pretend' to leave, he does a poo so I can clean it up before I actually have to leave!  It might work but I really want to stop it completely.  I have kept a toilet diary since bringing him home to try to help me predict (sad, I know). 

[Ninasmum]

Would you consider leaving the cage door open & leave a puppy pad/newspaper outside of his cage?    If he uses this at least it will save you so much cleaning.    Things will improve & you have to bear in mind he is not even 12 weeks old yet.    It is really unusual for a pupster to poop in their bedding area, so i can only imagine it must also stress him to do this. 

[Geordietyke]

Hi, I wouldn't like to dare trying to keep his cage door open - we've just had a brand new kitchen installed ready for selling the house sometime this year and he chews everything in sight as it is.  He'd also chew our doors to get to me (which had to be custom made for our house as nothing is the standard size  ).  I'm in awe when I read that people leave their pups in the kitchen uncaged either when they go out or overnight!  I couldn't imagine the havoc (not just the poo/wee) I'd return to! 

On a similar note, Odie uses his puppy pads/newspaper every time I'm around but the minute I'm not in the same room, he'll wee/poo ON THE CARPET  even though he uses correct place the rest of the time   Is it major separation anxiety he has you think? 

[coralee]

Again, I'm not the most experienced - but it really does sound like seperation anxiety doesn't it? Are you able to do the steps to try and break the cycle? Leave room, 10 secs, walk in, leave room 20 secs, walk in, etc etc until you can build it up to a decent time? If he's stressed, as Harvey was, and I asked the lovely people here - I was advised to buy a DAP diffuser, which I did straight away, and I'm convinced it calmed him from the get go. I couldn't even have him in his pen a metre away from me in the same room without him going bonkers trying to get to me - now I can leave and go to work and he's (mostly) calm, with a very rare poo in his pen. It's still a work in progress!

Hope it works out (I'm sure it is) just try and be patient - I know you must feel so frustrated - but positive thoughts even when you want to scream! Keeping my fingers crossed for you 

[luckypenny]

 

Hi, I wouldn't like to dare trying to keep his cage door open - we've just had a brand new kitchen installed ready for selling the house sometime this year and he chews everything in sight as it is. 

Would it be an option for you to get a puppy pen for him to be in when you're out? I realise they take up more space than a crate, but we used one for Penny (bought off the internet) and it was great. There was enough space for her bed, water and newspaper to toilet on if nec. You must be exhausted with all that cleaning

[Ninasmum]

Hi, I wouldn't like to dare trying to keep his cage door open - we've just had a brand new kitchen installed ready for selling the house sometime this year and he chews everything in sight as it is. 

Would it be an option for you to get a puppy pen for him to be in when you're out? I realise they take up more space than a crate, but we used one for Penny (bought off the internet) and it was great. There was enough space for her bed, water and newspaper to toilet on if nec. You must be exhausted with all that cleaning

How about this..... http://www.croftonline.co.uk/products.asp?partno=FREEDOM

[fizzyntiffy]

Idle thought, but when he does poo in his bed (or where he shouldn't) and you go back to him, do you say anything?  If you do maybe he's decided that this is a sure fire way of getting attention, of any sort?  And when you come home with kiddies there's lots of greetings and attention?

I've always, if doggie has poo'ed or wee'd anywhere, just been completely silent, avoided physical & eye contact, put doggie outside or away from the mess while I've cleaned it up, then mega greetings when it's all cleared away. Just a thought anyway    

Your doggies still very young  

[Geordietyke]

Hi, thanks for replies.  I already use a puppy pen (actually got 2 with total of 16 panels so can make it as big or small as I want!).  Regardless of size of pen, he still poos in it!  Regarding returning - it can be more excitable when I return with the girls, so I'm making sure they pass by the pen straight away without saying anything to Odie.   When I return on my own, I just deal with mess.  It's the same each time!  He doesn't seem to be bothered about stepping/sitting in his own mess - this doesn't seem normal to me.  Re: attention - he has my attention from 7am-11pm!!! 

[SarahS]

Hi, thanks for replies.  I already use a puppy pen (actually got 2 with total of 16 panels so can make it as big or small as I want!).  Regardless of size of pen, he still poos in it!  Regarding returning - it can be more excitable when I return with the girls, so I'm making sure they pass by the pen straight away without saying anything to Odie.   When I return on my own, I just deal with mess.  It's the same each time!  He doesn't seem to be bothered about stepping/sitting in his own mess - this doesn't seem normal to me.  Re: attention - he has my attention from 7am-11pm!!! 

Is your cage too big for him?  I had to partition off our cage, so that it was only big enough for his bed.  They should be reluctant to poo in their own bed.  He is very young still though.  It will get better - really!  I didn't shut our cage for the first few weeks, until the puppy was really relaxed and happy to be in there.  But once I started, I built up the time he was in it with the dog shut, and made sure it wasn't too big, so he didn't associate one half as a bed, and one half as a toilet.  This was advised to me on the forum and by our vet, and did work a treat.

[Geordietyke]

Hi Sarah, I started off with a very small partitioned cage - he poos in it/on his bed so moved onto the puppy pen.  As he still poos whichever size cage/pen I put him in, it's preferable to use a larger pen and hope he keeps the mess to one side    He sleeps through the night already in a partitioned cage by my bed so he doesn't have a problem with cages/pens.  He quite happily comes and goes in the pens (there is one in the living room/one in the kitchen) it's the separation from me that's the problem.  As I've mentioned, I have done all the techniques suggested on the forum for 4 weeks now....

[Anita D]

Yes, I feed him 3 times a day (I know they say 4 times at 12 weeks but he doesn't have a huge appetite!).  He is like clockwork for his 7.30am poo and I suppose the same for the one he does in his cage at school run time (3.00pm).  It's just getting him out of toiletting in his cage when I'm not there.  I always spend 15-20 mins with him playing outside before I have to leave him in his cage alone but he won't do a poo then, will save it for when I have to go out.    I have also put him in his cage beforehand and 'pretend' to leave, he does a poo so I can clean it up before I actually have to leave!  It might work but I really want to stop it completely.  I have kept a toilet diary since bringing him home to try to help me predict (sad, I know). 

It sounds like you have the toileting sorted (i.e. taking him out before you leave for exercise etc to see if he'll go).  Wonder whether, as someone else has said, it would be worth exploring the separation anxiety route.  Don't know enough about it but maybe there might be a book on the subject.  I hope something works out for you.