Pup with no KC papers yet?

[lindseyp]

I will take a deep breath, sit back, and wait for the right pup to come along!

   the right decision IMO Becky 

[JaspersMum]

I'm sorry Becky, I nearly didn't post as I felt like I was raining on your excitement BUT it sounds like in your heart you feel there was something not right about this breeder.  Maybe it is all genuine    (and I do know of good breeders who still have pups at 12 weeks plus - just not the colour you want).  Your pup is out there and I'm sure someone will come up trumps for you 

[Hurtwood Dogs]

On the docking issue, yes you're right if it wasn't April 07 it was very close to it - Dave (undocked) was born at the end of May 07 and I remember that by then the docking law was just in force. It could be legal if she's 3.5 say and the rest could stack up but it all does seem a bit woolly and not very well organised

I think you're making the right decision walking away, I only feel comfortable with breeders who are very clear and upfront about tests and registration and make a point of showing me the paperwork if that makes sense!

Keeping everything crossed for you that the right pup appears soon

[Annie's Mum]

the only thing that bothers me is what will happen to these pups if people are only looking for KC registered pups   only playing devils advocate as often you find non KC pups just as healthy as KC pups.....that said I would be very wary if a breeder was unsure of the age of her dog..I know mine off by heart

[Mel]

I would also agree that not all non-KC registered pups are unhealthy. Niki, my first cocker, was given to me and had no papers. He was a fit and very healthy dog. However, not knowing the age of your dog is highly suspect. The cynical side of me says this person could be selling pups from a dam she doesn't own. That's a point put the dams name into google and you may well, with some digging, find out the owners name and see if it's the same person. Do KC hold these records which the public can access?

[JaspersMum]

You can check health tests against a dogs name but doesn't show owner.  The cynic in me says you could give the pedigree name of any dog in the country and unless you happened to know the breeder or that dog, how would you know it is that dog.  A black bitch looks pretty much like another as an example 

Check health tests here http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/health/search/Default.aspx

[MaggieR]

Becky, no advise, just wanted to say hope the right pupster comes along for you soon.  Getting let down by someone can heighten so many emotions and trying to rectify the situation as quick as poss is perfectly natural, but think you've made the right decision about this little fella.  I'm a huge believer in everything happens for a reason and you will find the right one 

Lisa x

[luckypenny]

Really sorry to hear about this disappointment but if all sounds a bit vague - I really hope you find the pup of your dreams soon.
I can't imagine anyone not knowing the age of their dog. I wonder if it's even her dog, or just one from a puppy farmer/ BYB that has been shipped to a domestic setting to for the sale of the pups

[Jane S]

the only thing that bothers me is what will happen to these pups if people are only looking for KC registered pups   only playing devils advocate as often you find non KC pups just as healthy as KC pups.....that said I would be very wary if a breeder was unsure of the age of her dog..I know mine off by heart

Most non registered litters come from parents which have not been health tested so not sure about the claim that non registered pups are often as healthy as registered pups. KC registration is of course not a guarantee of a healthy puppy but it should be the starting point for every responsible breeder. From a buyer's point of view, a registered puppy means you have some idea of parentage (non-registered pups could come from anywhere) and you also have public access to the health status of the parents of a KC reg litter (by using the online database) and can start your research by checking this. Unfortunately it's not uncommon for breeders to claim their dogs are health tested when they are not - we even had a COL member (now ex-member) who did this until she was found out so claims of health testing should always be checked out & not just taken at face value.

As for what happens to non registered pups, well if no-one bought pups from breeders who don't breed responsibly, they would soon stop breeding - it's the fact that people are happy to buy from puppy farms, commercial breeders, BYBs etc that means these kind of breeders sadly continue to thrive.

[Chedi]

On the docking issue, yes you're right if it wasn't April 07 it was very close to it - Dave (undocked) was born at the end of May 07 and I remember that by then the docking law was just in force. It could be legal if she's 3.5 say and the rest could stack up but it all does seem a bit woolly and not very well organised

I think you're making the right decision walking away, I only feel comfortable with breeders who are very clear and upfront about tests and registration and make a point of showing me the paperwork if that makes sense!

Keeping everything crossed for you that the right pup appears soon

Just thought I'd add about docking that they still can - so even a pup born this year could have a docked tail.
As long as the breeder fills in the correct paper work/forms for it, can proove they'll be a working dog (as in there is no point trying to dock a show cocker when you can get working cockers for the job) instead of pets, and its done before the puppy is 5 days old, a vet will dock the tails!

[Helen]

On the docking issue, yes you're right if it wasn't April 07 it was very close to it - Dave (undocked) was born at the end of May 07 and I remember that by then the docking law was just in force. It could be legal if she's 3.5 say and the rest could stack up but it all does seem a bit woolly and not very well organised

I think you're making the right decision walking away, I only feel comfortable with breeders who are very clear and upfront about tests and registration and make a point of showing me the paperwork if that makes sense!

Keeping everything crossed for you that the right pup appears soon

Just thought I'd add about docking that they still can - so even a pup born this year could have a docked tail.
As long as the breeder fills in the correct paper work/forms for it, can proove they'll be a working dog (as in there is no point trying to dock a show cocker when you can get working cockers for the job) instead of pets, and its done before the puppy is 5 days old, a vet will dock the tails!

The OP is looking for a Show Cocker puppy so that's why they raised the docking issue as the show cocker dam is docked 

[loppylugs]

My black/tan bitch was one of the last ones to be legally docked before the ban came into force(show cocker,not worker)being docked on the 27th march 07(ban came in 28th march)i did find that when showing her i had to be so precise when the judge asked her age,you tend to forget that '2 years' should be '2 years and 3 months' for instance,the 2 year bit making her illegally docked,the 3 months added on making her 'legal'i learnt the hard way as she lost the  1st place at an open show because i,d missed a few months off,the judge saw me afterwards and said she couldnt place her as the age i said made her illegal!!!! Having 8 cockers,i do sometimes get mixed up and get the ages wrong,also.
             When i bought her,i waited quite a while for her breeder to register her as she coldnt decide on a name for her,i said that was ok as long as she was registered by 6 months so i could show her.I also have her pups now(2) which are 8 weeks,i havent registered them yet as i cant decide on their show names,neither have i advertised them yet as i want to make sure i keep the best one for showing.
             I am not an accredited breeder,but ALL my dogs have been/will be health tested.   What i,m trying to say is,delve deeper into this breeder before you decide,does she show or just breed for a hobby?Do you know any other breeders that no of her?that can verify what she says.

[Becky and Wilson]

My black/tan bitch was one of the last ones to be legally docked before the ban came into force(show cocker,not worker)being docked on the 27th march 07(ban came in 28th march)i did find that when showing her i had to be so precise when the judge asked her age,you tend to forget that '2 years' should be '2 years and 3 months' for instance,the 2 year bit making her illegally docked,the 3 months added on making her 'legal'i learnt the hard way as she lost the  1st place at an open show because i,d missed a few months off,the judge saw me afterwards and said she couldnt place her as the age i said made her illegal!!!! Having 8 cockers,i do sometimes get mixed up and get the ages wrong,also.
             When i bought her,i waited quite a while for her breeder to register her as she coldnt decide on a name for her,i said that was ok as long as she was registered by 6 months so i could show her.I also have her pups now(2) which are 8 weeks,i havent registered them yet as i cant decide on their show names,neither have i advertised them yet as i want to make sure i keep the best one for showing.
             I am not an accredited breeder,but ALL my dogs have been/will be health tested.   What i,m trying to say is,delve deeper into this breeder before you decide,does she show or just breed for a hobby?Do you know any other breeders that no of her?that can verify what she says.

No she wasn't a show breeder, the mum was clipped and she never mentioned ever showing her just that the sires line had lots of champs in it. I would understand her reasons for not registering a couple of the pups if it was because of keeping them herself and like you struggling to think of her name.  But the reason she gave about not being an accredited breeder yet I now know are rubbish and the pups could have been registered anyway!