Toiletting advice please

[Mel]

Sorry back to toileting again. This morning he did wees on cue but not toilets. We were out around 25 minutes. I had to come in because the care workers had arrived and so he toilets in the lounge. I take him out for 20 minutes when they have gone and nothing. I have to take mum downstairs which takes a good 5 minutes in her wheelchair and so he toilets in the lounge again. Every time I take her down he toilets which means he's reinforcing toileting in the home and not outside. Not sure how to break it. Of course it's done while I'm not there so I cant say the cue words. I did show him as I cleaned it up and said the cue words but I don't know if that's right.

Sorry for being a pain but as well as living in a flat my free time at some points of the day is limited.

At least the wees are improving!

[BeckyD]

how often do you take him outside to use the grass? if he was getting out once every hour for 5 minutes he should get into a routine of doing his business outside.
It would probably help if you kept him in the same room as you, you can keep an eye on him and see what hes up to, then you will know if he needs to go to the toilet and be able take him out or at least catch him in the act if he goes in the house and be able to tell him off!
Also, have u tried taking him a short walk? even up and down your path a few times, i found this made my pup go to the toilet quicker!

[Hurtwood Dogs]

I've never had to deal with the logistics of a non groundfloor flat and a pup so other than a lot of hard work and keeping at it I'm not sure what else to suggest now It's rare that puppies get full on attention 24x7 - I've had to look after young children whilst toilet training too and or work as do others, so I don't think the fact that you have to do things with your mother is such a factor here. I think possibly you may have to up his outside visits to every half hour if you can at the moment until he starts to grasp it... he's had a bit of a confusing start (not your fault) just with the logistics of where you live so it's not surprising it's taking a bit longer and he is still very young. Dave was amazingly quick to toilet train (or at least I think so!) but his Dam had a dog flap in the kitchen where she'd whelped and used to notice when the pups needed to go and take them outside and it's a lesson that's always stuck with him - he's even REALLY tidy about where he goes on walks bless him, she was obviously a pretty fastidious mother

I wouldn't use the cue word for when you're clearing his mess up - that will only confuse him ONLY use it when he's getting ready to go and going so it's very clear what that word is about. My first cocker never got the hang of a cue I have to say and I've not needed it with my current two

[Mel]

Yes Becky I'm doing all those things, I just have certain times where I can't stay out any longer and that is when we fail. He walks - we have huge grounds here though they are open to the roads so not safe to leave pupst out. He seems to have got weeing and when he goes he now looks to me for the praise, but toilets....still not acheiving. It's unfortunate he's associating mum being taken to the bus with him pooing. There is only mum and I here so I can't ask someone else to do it.

Sorry just upset. I've housetrained two other Cockers here successfully, Tali is just slow I guess.

Thanks Hurtwood, I know he should be going out more and when I'm here alone I can but when care workers and stuff arrive I have to wait til they are finished. :-(

[Nicola]

I've merged the new toileting thread with the one from yesterday as they're on the same subject.

I really don't think Tali is 'slow' at this, he's still very young and until very recently it was the norm for him to go in the house so it's pretty good that he's already got the hang of peeing outside. Patience and consistency are the only way to go, can you take him with you when you take your Mum downstairs? Could she maybe hold him on her lap until you get down the stairs? Also don't use the cue word and praise for anything other than him being about to go and actually going outside or you'll just confuse him.

[Mel]

Thanks Nicola. Sorry should have thought about carrying on the thread. Unfortunately it's quite an issue getting mum downstairs as the lift is too small for her chair and I have to dismantle parts of it. She has serious dementia and if he sat on her lap she would moan and could swipe him if he wriggled. It's like having an overgrown toddler 

I know he's learnt wees quickly and I'm just obsessing I guess. We played a new game with treats today and he picked it up first time so he isn't daft 

[mooching]

Does Tali have a crate? If so, perhaps you could pop him in his crate with a couple of treats while you take your mum downstairs.

[Hurtwood Dogs]

 

Try and stick your head in the sand and just get on with these months... I promise in six months time, you'll have mostly forgotten about all of this and life will be MUCH easier Obviously only for a week or two before the terrible teens hit

x

[Mel]

No Mooching, he barks the flat down and poos in his crate.

Yeah I know Hurtwood but my friend said he is not showing me respect. He is back to biting my hands to shreds with big teeth - yes he's drawn blood again, and he leaps at me biting all the time. I am spending hours trying to train him not to bite but he won't. He just leaps at my hair or face. He's very difficult to train as a result. He's also scared of everything at the moment. He's gone from doing fabulously to being on a mission to get me, so my friend says. I shall keep persisting though.

[Hurtwood Dogs]

No Mooching, he barks the flat down and poos in his crate.

Yeah I know Hurtwood but my friend said he is not showing me respect. He is back to biting my hands to shreds with big teeth - yes he's drawn blood again, and he leaps at me biting all the time. I am spending hours trying to train him not to bite but he won't. He just leaps at my hair or face. He's very difficult to train as a result. He's also scared of everything at the moment. He's gone from doing fabulously to being on a mission to get me, so my friend says. I shall keep persisting though.

I can promise you Dave was exactly the same and a real shock after my first very sweet pup that hardly bit at all I've mentioned it on a number of threads that if I even said 'Ah ah' to him or 'no' he'd properly attack me whilst screaming... and it's because he gets (even today to an extent) very unsure about confrontation with humans - not dogs fortunately his dog to dog skills are pretty top. With a kid in the house I ended up having to keep them separately. I gave up saying anything to him when he bit just quietly and calmly popped him in his 'space' in the kitchen on his own and eventually he learnt that he enjoyed time with us, we weren't a threat to him and to get time with us, he had to behave in a certain way - he learnt this because when he was being how we perceive 'nice' he stayed with us and when he bit or attacked he was quickly and quietly removed without any conflict... it took nearly a year before he was left loose with us all the time but it REALLY paid off. He's now very confident with all humans (although still doesn't like raised or harsh voices) and a really really loving, sweet, funny little dog that's always wrapped purring around my legs . If I'd gone head to head with him or even carried on with verbal scolds for biting, I think know it could have ended very differently... with a dog that doesn't trust and reacts when worried.

Tali is challenging you or maybe defending himself but not in the way your friend describes, you don't need to show him who's in charge you just have to consistently manage him as you would a baby - he is a baby right now and work on quietly gaining his trust and respect over time with clear, regular and consistent procedures and lots of positive training and rewards.... promise

[Mel]

Thanks that's good to know 

I've not done anything to get this sort of reaction though. Maybe he gets confused with people coming in? I dunno. He's quietly asleep on my bed as we speak, butter wouldn't melt. I think my friend meant mutual respect, i.e. I respect him being tired, hungry, etc and he needs to learn to respect I do the good things and save him from harm. Thus the hands feed and protect and are not a chicken wing substitute.

Thank you for your post. I was really beginning to feel I was failing with him and that's tough when you've brought up two pupsts into very gentle dogs.

[Geordietyke]

Mel, you've just hit the nail on the head.  You have done it before with 2 dogs and succeeded.  As you know, all pups are different, it will make you crazy if you constantly think why your pup doesn't do this or doesn't do that, I know I've done it!  The crate problem you have, as you know Odie had (not the barking though).  It really drove me to tears (and alcohol ) for months but something just clicked in him (maybe realising I WAS coming back after all).  I can't explain why it happened when it did - I certainly didn't do anything different so I suppose it's down to each individual pup to realise what is expected of them.  Even now, I can't have Odie trailing me whilst I'm up and down the stairs so pop him in his crate and even though he'll whine, he now doesn't wee/poo in 'defiance' of me leaving him. 

The attacking thing - it's not so bad with Odie now (perhaps his 'mad' 5 mins on an evening), but I have to say that all the methods (ignoring/leaving room/large teddy to deflect etc) did not work for me.  I resigned myself to lots of bite marks/scratches until he grew out of it, which he's more or less done but I really feel for you as I've been there and know how bad it can be.  Keep us posted on your progress.  Lesley x 

[Hurtwood Dogs]

Thanks that's good to know 

I've not done anything to get this sort of reaction though.

Exactly, and I didn't give Dave any reason to behave in a defensive way either... but having learnt from him, I really believe some dogs just can't handle any confrontation from a human and unless that's recognised early and managed accordingly, then it can tip them towards being untrusting and potentially more reactive/aggressive adults.

I also had problems with Dave guarding food and toys and it was all trust and fear based - I just needed to earn his trust and he's repayed me so much now. He's absolutely fine today (he's 3), I can take anything off him (well dead rabbits are sometimes a little tricky ) and he's totally relaxed with food, although he's not a dog I'd go over the top with boisterous play or ragging etc.. he just needs it gentle and kind and then that's how he behaves My last cocker was a lot more laid back and easily trusting - you could have as much rough play with him as you liked and he'd never become fearful or aggressive... they're all different but all have the potential to be wonderful gentle adult dogs given the right help... however testing for us that is!

[Mel]

Thats the thing though, I can go into his mouth, remove food tell him "oh look what is this? Isn't it lovely?" and give it back with no hint of aggression, same with removing stuff he shouldn't be eating. So I'm hopeful this is part of the teething and growing up, it's just painful