Recall - from not too bad to non-existent

[black taz]

Taz has become the dog from hell again off lead  within the space of a couple of weeks.

We regularly go to a nearby nature park, with lots of tempting scents. Until the last couple of weeks, Taz would go off and have a sniff but would return within a couple of minutes, the last couple of weeks he has been really bad, going off an not coming back for ages then when he does come back if i look towards him he tears off again the opposite direction until he is ready to come back. 

I have gone back to basics so many times, taken it steady and not moved on to the next step until he was ready, etc., but it seems he gets to the point where he is reliable, sticks to it for a month or so, tricks me into a false sense of security then reverts back to ignoring me.  In the house he is a dream, and the last couple of months he has been brilliant at agility (he used to disappear there too), but this time he is worse than ever.  He also has this "look" and when he stands there with this "look" on this face, i know that nothing i do will stop him from doing a runner.  When he does finally come back to me, i dont shout at him, just put him back on the lead.   Fortunately, my lab (10 months) does recall. 

Its really starting to limit our off lead walks, as i cannot let him off at any of our usual close by parks in case he goes in the fields (where the farmers will shoot).  I am really starting to think our only option is to keep him on lead and accept defeat.

I just wonder if this could be a result of a really distruptive summer we have had - we have had a kitchen extension which has meant that we have had a lot of workmen around and Taz doesnt really like strangers (although he seems fairly happy iwth them) on top of this i had a major event at work about 3 weeks ago, and prior to that had had to work long hours (sons or hubby where around most of the time so the dogs werent left unattended).  He hs also seemed in a strange mood, and in a morning hasnt been keen to come for a walk.   Any advise?

[Sarah1985]

tricks me into a false sense of security then reverts back to ignoring me. 

I personally start with the assumption my dogs are going to be naughty.  So each and every walk we have a little recall practice.

Unfortuntately your work will never be done with regards to training. Unless you keep practicing regularly standards start to slip and before you know it your back where you started.

My advise for the look would be as soon as he gives it you, you turn and run in the opposite direction (works incredibly well if you do so while screaming and/or waving your arms but this is optional. ). He will almost certainly chase you rather than go off in the opposite direction. When he reaches you reward. It'll breaks the pattern of naughty behaviour

Failing that you could use a long line. If you get the "screw you" look you can stand on the lead. 

[black taz]

I always start the walk with recalls with treats, just remind them what they get when they come back to me. i have tried the running in the opposite direction (with and without the waving of arms and calling excitedly ) but he still does his own thing.  Annoyingly enough, the longline was in my bag today, but as he had recalled perfectly during the first 5 minutes or so of the walk, i didnt put it on him - needless to say the longline is going to be my best friend for some time to come - at the moment i may never let him off lead other than at agility again

[mooching]

black taz, is it worth upping the value of the treats at all? (though of course you may have done this already!)

Also, just wondered, are you calling his name for recall or are you using a whistle?

[Petepreston]

I can't say I've noticed any difference in Posie's behaviour no matter what the treat is. Fortunately it is generally a quick and positive response. However, we can practise in the house and garden all we like, but when she's out on a walk on a long lead, she seems less inclined to pay much attention and so we haven't trusted her off the lead yet. Hopefully the holiday next week will give us a chance because we'll be in the middle of nowhere with few distractions - other than smells.

It strikes me that consistency is the key. Keep trying with taz.

[vixen]

As mooching has said, it might be worth upping the value of Taz's treats for a prompt recall.
My girls only ever get pilchard cake on recall to the whistle.
During my walk I randomly recall them as I like to keep them on their toes. It does help that they are very greedy girls 
Would you consider going right back to the start of Top Barks recall lessons using a very high value treat that he only ever gets on recall?

[mooching]

Petepreston,

Have you read this excellent post at all by Top Barks? It's brilliant, and has been a great help to us with teaching recall to Alfie. Alfie's been having off-lead time twice a day now for about 6 weeks (he's 5 1/2 months old now) and is doing excellently with the whistle and clicker, thanks to the sound advice in this post:

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=69512.0

As Posie is a worker, it's especially important that she has regular off-lead time.

[Sarah.H]

From someone that has already admitted defeat I know where you're coming from  . I would say the fact that he looks at you before bogging off gives you hope, Millie is just so interested in hunting she pays me no attention when she gets going. Perhaps don't do recall training at the beginning? Maybe he's already had enough food rewards so then running off is more rewarding for him? Do you play games while you're on a walk? Millie loves fetching/chasing her ball and I had a lot of success in using that as a reward rather than food. You don't even have to make him recall right up to you, just shout his name and as he's running towards you throw the ball off to one side/behind you, then I give a food reward for giving the ball up. I also save a massive amount of treats for when she has to go back on the lead at the end of the walk so she is happy to go back on the lead.

Another thing is Autumn is always worse as the smells become much sharper and there are lots of this summers baby animals around, especially squirrels  .

[Sheepscheeks]

Ha, I know this so well! I have posted in the past about Freddie's recall - he mobbed a couple of chihuahuas a while back and it caught me on a bad day - the owner's comments really upset me "You can't control your dog" etc - perfectly true but I do try! I got a whistle and long line and started training using Top Barks thread but can't get to the stage of a reliable recall to the whistle when he is playing or following a scent. We have got into tangles with the long line on so many occasions because our regular off lead walk is by hedgerows. Freddie is 1 on 20th October and I really really wish I had started whistle training recall from day 1. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, though. Like the OP's dog, Freddie can be a star but the smells at the moment are just soo tempting - saw a rabbit this morning - well you should have seen him go! Having said that, on the way to our walk this afternoon, he recalled brilliantly even though he had seen a dog in the distance and had started running towards it. So there are glimmers of hope on the horizon. Keep at it is what I say to myself. I think recall will always be a work in progress with Freddie...

[black taz]

at least its a relief that its not just me that has problems! 

I have done both the name recall and whistle training, both get to the stage where he is consistent then its almost as if he remembers that if he bogs off there is little i can do to get him back if he doesnt want to come back.  The fact the Kira is pretty consistent at coming back does give me some hope that i am not a complete loss.  As it is coming upto the dark nights so very little chance to let hem off after work i am going right back to basics with him and if i do let him off only do so if it is a safe environment where he cannot get into trouble and don't recall him (ie: wait till he comes back to me).

I have tried the playing and to be honest he really isnt that bothered.  With treats it depends on how much more interesting the scent is - chicken and cheese are his favourites but if the scent is interesting he isnt bothered with the treat.

Its so frustrating as otherwise his behaviour is excellent

thanks for all your help and advice though  - back to basics though - wish me luck

[mooching]

Have you tried him with frankfurters at all, blacktaz? Or livercake/tunacake?

Just wondered if a change of treat might help.

[Danni and Freya]

Just to let you know there are more of us with the same problem, Harvey is another   in this area. Today he ran up to four rottweilers on the beach, one of which was on the lead (couldn't see that to begin with), the owners glared as I tried to catch up and thier on lead dog tried to eat him. As he did finally recall one chased him back to me and had a good go at grabbing him too! To be fair I don't think dogs that aggressive should be on the very busy beach on a saturday afternoon with loads of kids and dogs. Not the point though I know, its so embarassing and we always have some sort of incident on walks which is so frustrating. He only does it when he sees a dog, otherwise hes fairly reliable. I am going to start whistle training with cheese to see if thats more reliable  

[Sarah1985]

Just to let you know there are more of us with the same problem, Harvey is another   in this area. Today he ran up to four rottweilers on the beach, one of which was on the lead (couldn't see that to begin with), the owners glared as I tried to catch up and thier on lead dog tried to eat him. As he did finally recall one chased him back to me and had a good go at grabbing him too! To be fair I don't think dogs that aggressive should be on the very busy beach on a saturday afternoon with loads of kids and dogs. Not the point though I know, its so embarassing and we always have some sort of incident on walks which is so frustrating. He only does it when he sees a dog, otherwise hes fairly reliable. I am going to start whistle training with cheese to see if thats more reliable  

I found my boy was much  more difficult to recall compared with my girl as well. He seems much more adventrous and a bit to keen to say hello to absolutely everyone. I wonder if its a male thing...

Luckerly now Dexters older hes improved so hang in there. I saw the biggest improvemet when I started using "doggies" as a recall word to call both my two rather than Dexters name (i do still use his name occasionally). I suppose you use their name all the time but "doggies" is the command thats only used for recall. I suppose they why whistles can improve recall.

[Sheepscheeks]

I'm glad too that I am not the only one with recall problems - it seems that almost every other dog I see is better than Freddie, even a 9 month old terrier he was playing with this morning. Like Taz, Freddie doesn't want to play when he's out and even though he is an absolute  around food at home, once he is off lead, if there is a good smell or a very playful dog around he loses all interest in treats. He has tuna bread as a general treat, cheese for recall. For the whistle I made pilchard bread but it didn't seem to make a difference. I thought about buying some frankfurters but looked at the list of ingredients and put the tin back!

[Cockertime Blues]

I can sympathise with this, and have to say Alfie & I have been backsliding on recall etc.  He also can't seem to Wait any more without slinking a few steps forward the minute I turn my head and stop looking at him.  This is all my fault - we've had a busy summer and I've become complacent and lazy during walks, and I need to get my act together.  Even my friend who is registered blind has to do 30 minutes training every day with her guide dog or the dog slips back into being a "normal" dog rather than a guide dog.