Author Topic: overly excited pup!  (Read 2188 times)

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Offline kona

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overly excited pup!
« on: January 04, 2012, 09:10:00 AM »
Hi

In november i posted that we got a 'brother ' for Kona. he is from a completely different line from Kona and now at 17 weeks we are massively noticing the difference in tempraments .

Kona has always been calm, good,loving, obedient almost doting. To be fair this did have some problems in itself in so far that if we left him alone he would howl and howl and hated his crate.He used to come to work with us which was great and suited all of us but unfortunately we were no longer able to do that, hence we decided to get some company for him.

Zach has turned out to be the total opposite, his line has been bred for show rather than temprament and you can really see that!! We can put him in his crate and he is happy to be on his own in there and sleep, no problems however when we come home or get up and let him out he's like a tasmanian devil!!!

My main concern is poor Kona because all Zach wants to do is jump on him,bite him, pull his ears and now 'hump' him (sorry!).This initially used to go on for about half an hour and then he would stop but now it's going on for up to two hours at a time.I know this is general puppy behaviour but that's all he wants to do and very rarely happy to occupy himself unless in a destructive way (see below!).

We have tried to walk him a bit longer but it doesn't seem to help, in fact some times he just seems more energised! I don't want to walk him for too long at the moment either because he's obviously still only little. We do about 40 minutes max on our week end long walks and during the week, daily, he gets 5 x 15minutes.

Kona was never a chewer either but Zach wants anything he isn't meant to chew...anything! This also extends to anything Kona has. We try to distract him by giving him a chew or toy of the same texture as the thing he's chewing but not meant to be but often he's not interested.

The only time Zach is the more submissive character is at the beach when he obviously had a lot of thinking to do!!!!

Can anyone offer any advice? My husband and i are worn out/exhausted and sick of saying no/leave it/get off! We are really feeling sorry for Kona and worried Zach is going to grow up with bad habits. We're worried we have made a mistake getting two boys?

The current pattern seems to be two hours of madness followed by about thirty/forty minutes sleep. He has max of three hours in his crate twice a day while we are work (we split shifts so we can come home over lunch to walk them) and sleeps in there overnight.

Thankyou : )

Offline Jane S

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2012, 09:51:11 AM »
Zach has turned out to be the total opposite, his line has been bred for show rather than temprament and you can really see that!!

Oh dear - you seem to be saying poor Zach's temperament is at fault as he's bred from show lines but actually your other puppy is also from show lines, just different ones. I think you perhaps had slightly unrealistic expectations that your new puppy would have the same personality as Kona when all puppies have their own individual personalities, some may be calm and placid as pups but others are typical, lively in-your-face pups. Zach sounds pretty normal to me - yes a handful but many pups are at this age and will do all the things he is doing (and more!). He is also spending quite a lot of time in a crate (six hours a day if I read right as well as all night) which is probably contributing to his high energy levels when you are home. Have you tried using stuffed kongs to keep him entertained when he is in his crate, so he has something to do rather than just sleep?

Do you do any individual training with Zach ie take him on his own to training classes and do training sessions with him on your own? If not, it might be a good idea - it will help him build more of a bond with you and also learning helps tire a puppy out (mental exercise can be more exhausting to a pup than physical exercise).

Jane

Offline Sharon

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2012, 09:52:49 AM »
his line has been bred for show rather than temprament and you can really see that!!

That seems a bit of an unfair statement, show dogs have wonderful temperaments, they have to for the handling etc in the show ring.  Plus at 17 weeks, that sounds like  normal behaviour - everything you've described sounds completely normal puppy behaviour to me.  3 hours twice a day and all night  does seem a long time to shut a pup in a crate, hence when he comes out he's so full of energy.

Offline Karma

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2012, 10:05:56 AM »

You don't say what Kona is doing when Zach is "terrorising" him...
What training do you do with Zach?
What positive outlets for his chewing? (tug games can really help)

Are his walks just for him, or is Kona there too?

Does Zach get any time just him and his humans, or is Kona always there?

When you get a pup alongside an existing dog, you do have to work extra hard to establish a bond between pup and human, as another dog speaks the right language to a pup.... especially if everything he is hearing from you is as negative as you describe...  (and unless you have taught him what no/leave it/get off means, all he hears is your negative voice, and he will learn to ignore you....  ;) )

In my experience, pups are rarely happy to occupy themselves - if left to their own devices they are likely to find things we don't want them to find... pups need their owners to show them appropriate ways of occupying their time...  ;)
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline kona

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 10:07:45 AM »
Sorry i think i probably haven't worded that right! I wasn't implying there was anythinig wrong with show line pups  :D i think our Zach is fabulous!

All i meant was that he is more confident and sure of who he is, which isn't a bad thing at all just differenr from Kona's  temprament which is  about focusing more on pleasing us rather than himself lol...probably says more about us than the dogs lol  ;) Zach makes us laugh lots because he can be so into everything a sure of him self and that's a lovely side of his nature!

Just different , like people are  :D

I was wondering about fly ball or something but not sure if he's too young yet.

We haven't started proper training classes with him yet (which we did with Kona) but i have all the details jsut need to phone and book.

As far as crating goes what sort of timings are we realisticaly looking at?

I am managing to change some of my hours at work so three days a week i work just afternoons rather than full days. That will give me all morning at home then.

I haven't used a Kong with Zach either but did with Kona??? Poor Zach is maybe suffering from second child syndrome  ;) sometimes don't realise these things until others point them out!!

Thank you!

Offline kona

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2012, 10:15:59 AM »
Thankyou Karma

This is a really interesting and helpful post, i didn't know about those things.

Zach never really has individual human time and i never thought about that. Would that be things like walking him on his own or taking him to training on his own?

Kona is always there although we do try to play on our own with zach to give kona a rest! However Zach always wants to go back to terrorising Kona! This generally involves jumpimg on him, biting him hard to get a response, pulling at his ears, pinching his toys or humping his face!!!!!

It feels like boredom to me , as i said before Zach is at his best at the beach when he has lots to consider and think about and big spaces to negotiate.

I'm really going to give those things consideration and discuss them with my husband perhaps put a schedule in place for the days we are at home.

Thanks again!

Offline Karma

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2012, 10:24:53 AM »

The important thing in the pestering of kona really is Kona's reaction??
Kona is in the position of being able to teach Zach manners (as and when he is ready to learn) far better than you can... as long as Kona isn't becoming stressed with the attention (and do make sure he has somewhere he can go to get away from Zach if he needs to), the incessant play/pestering really isn't an issue (as long as it's not preventing you from establishing a relationship with Zach yourself!).

Individual time - yes walks on his own, training - you don't have to wait for classes to start to do some training!!  ;)
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline elaine.e

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2012, 10:47:08 AM »
I have 2 show bred boys and they are very different to each other. In fact my situation is a bit like yours.

My older boy, William, was the perfect pup. Very easy going, very cuddly, confident but laid back, quick to learn, not destructive etc. He was my third Cocker, although my first puppy for many years and I know I was lucky with him as he was an easier puppy to raise than my previous two.

Then Louis came along and he was such a needy puppy and such hard work. I wasn't expecting him to be another William, but it was a real shock to find myself with a puppy that wouldn't settle at night until about 5 months old, seemed unable to focus on anything for even a second and gave William hell :005:

Introducing a new puppy to an established dog isn't always easy. I made a conscious effort right from the start to give both dogs some individual time, so they would get a walk together in the morning (short enough for the puppy to cope with) then later in the day William would get a long walk on his own and Louis would get a short walk and some training on his own. Are you able to do anything like that with your 2? I also took Louis to puppy class once a week and William to his training class once a week. It helped Louis to socialise with other dogs and also to get used to being home alone when I was out with William.

Louis at 17 weeks was very much the same as Zach is right now, although less of a chewer. He was full of energy and I found him exhausting and had many moments of thinking that by getting him I'd made a big mistake. William spent a lot of time avoiding Louis and really didn't want to play with him, so I made sure that he was able to get away from Louis by either being allowed upstairs for a rest or by shutting Louis in his playpen with a Kong filled with nice things and frozen to make it last longer or a hide chew. Can you separate your 2 some of the time so that Kona can have some respite?

As Jane S has already said, I think a lot of your problems are down to how long Zach is in his crate. He's bound to be full of pent up energy after 3 hours in it twice a day plus all night. Is he more relaxed on days when you're not working?

I don't think there's anything wrong with his temperament. He's just a livelier puppy than Kona was and is at a very lively age.

Based on my experience with Louis, my suggestion is to make a real effort to spend some time with Zach on his own and do training and fun games to help him learn how to focus and to think for himself. Reward him when he gets things right and quietly praise and reward him when you see him relaxing. That should help you build up a bond with him and make your relationship stronger.

Try different fillings in Kongs and have a couple of them, so there's always one in reserve ready for action. You can use things like kibble, mashed banana, squeezy cheese, natural yogurt, peanut butter etc. Fill and freeze and try leaving him with one when he's in his crate in the daytime.

When you're there with him you could also try a hide chew when he's already used up some energy and you want him to wind down and relax. Chewing something appropriate can be a stress reliever so may help him a lot. I never leave mine to chew unsupervised and I'm careful about what chews I give.

Finally, what do you feed Zach? Some of the less expensive kibbles and wet foods contain a lot of colours, preservatives and additives that can make dogs hyper.

Please hang in there. Zach is at a very lively age and I really understand how frustrating that is, but if you put in the hard work now to help him you'll get there in the end. No 2 Cockers are exactly alike and maybe Zach will always be a bit more challenging than Kona, but he sounds like a perfectly normal puppy :luv:

Offline kona

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2012, 11:01:18 AM »
Hi Elaine,

I felt a big sigh of relief when i read your post , thankyou!!!

I feed him eukanuba and have noticed this week when we have run out of fish oils he has been livelier.

Kona gets some walks on his own with my husband later on in the evening but i think i will try it with Zach too and definitiely to go back to the kong-i think he would love that! I never thought of chewing being a stress reliever at all but it really makes sense, he does love hide chews too.

I'm going to print this reply out and stick it to the fridge lol to remind me i'm not losing my sanity after all  ;)

Thanks again

Offline Evadee

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2012, 01:03:18 PM »
Just read through all this quickly on my lunch break.  I can relate to this as our 2nd cocker Jake (16 wks) is very different to our 1st cocker Tia.

Tia is very confident, in your face a bit for attention and reasonably energetic.

Jake is so different I was almost concerned for the first couple of weeks!  He sleeps alot, lols around and is generally less energetic, he is livening up a bit but will never be as full on as Tia.

They are both extremely good natured  :luv:  from exactly the same parents too.

Have to say, I'm glad we had the more demanding  energetic dog first! 

Offline seaangler

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2012, 03:01:38 PM »
elaine.e....  Very good post there are a few things happen with  are gemma as to what you have said in your post....And the playing rely dos work(gemma is full of energy)...Plus taking time out(as you have) alone with my gemma so she has my undivided attention....But i do have to be carefull of over exercises gemma with the breed of dog i have...(as they will go down on their front legs)..

As Elaine has also said about the chews..Do ((not buy)) the ones from China that has a knots at each end...They come off after loads of biteing and chewing and can lodge in the dogs mouth...I alway throw mine away after they have had a good chew on them and got smaller..

And do Hope Kona will learn from the post...





Gemma..Cindy And peggy

Offline Robbie34

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 03:58:26 PM »
I have two Cockers that have quite different temperaments although both are very loving.

Charley will be fourteen in a few weeks time and has always been a very quiet dog.  He was always very placid as a puppy, and still is.  Henry, however, is very different.  He is now sixteen months and is very, very boisterous.  He jumps on Charley and also tries to hump him, so I often have to intervene.  Henry also has his mad five minutes when he tears around the house.  He also likes to jump up to anyone we meet so that they will make a fuss of him.  Although Henry is "wild," he is also very loveable and has never growled or snapped when I have had to stop him from jumping on Charley.  Henry has a very soft nature, albeit he's a tad wild.  He loves lots of cuddles, and sleeps on my knee when I'm watching TV.  You really couldn't wish for a nicer dog.

I think you'll find that your younger dog will settle down but may always be boisterous.  I shouldn't worry about him but accept the difference.


Offline Laura

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 11:04:41 PM »
I don't have any advice but just want to reassure you that Zach is a normal lively puppy  :luv:

I own Blossom and Ziggy (in my avatar) who are both 18 months old this week. How completely different they are despite being brother and sister. Ziggy is laid back and a gorgeous cuddle monster  :luv: Blossom is our excitable little live wire  :luv: She is much more energetic and reminds us daily that life is for living :shades:  Blossom enjoys her cuddles too and loves our attention but, she just cant stay still for as long as her brother.   She is settling down though with maturity and with activities and training that encourage self control and relaxation.  I have found this as important as daily exercise for her. 

Ziggy has a kong, treat ball, food hidden because he really enjoys these activities.  However, I would say Blossom needs these chew/puzzle opportunities to help channel her energy, give Ziggy a break and to stop her getting into mischief.

Good luck with Zach and Kona.  They both sound adorable :D
Laura x

Run free together boys. Missing you both xx
Bailey  29/04/04 - 16/03/11
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Offline kona

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2012, 07:58:37 AM »
I just wanted to say thankyou to everyone who replied to my post.

I have managed to alter the structure of the day slightly playing in their natural routines and things have improved somewhat  :D

I've worked from home 3/5 mornings this week up at 7am - walked and fed and played till about9am then they naturally settled down while i worked. I woke them up about10.45 took them on an off the lead longer walk then back home,fed and play they were naturally settling down about 12.20. I had to go to work at 12.50 so they went in their crates then till about 4.30 when my husband got home.

They were much more settled during the evening and although they played weren't as boisterous. I've also bought another Kong and started using them which they love and doing training in the house-i'd forgotten how rewarding that is for them!

Thanks again!

Offline elaine.e

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Re: overly excited pup!
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2012, 08:25:21 AM »
That's good news :D. I'm really pleased that they're more settled now that you've made some changes to their routine.