6 month pups constant biting

[abkb]

Hi all,

We have been and gone through the first puppy biting phase, with those needle teeth all gone now.  However, we now have a new biting problem.  Molly is nearly 6 months old and seems to (what I can only describe as) bite us as her form of attention seeking.

I've spoke previously of how Molly jumps up at the dining table, as well as when we have anything in our hands on the sofa, and will do a high pitched bark because she wants what we've got.  We say 'off' and praise her when she's sat.  However, now when we say 'off' she will just carry on jumping up.  We try to ignore her but she has now decided to start biting our toes/hands/clothes.

But this isn't where the biting stops.  If we call her over sometimes for a stroke, or to play, or if she is sat cuddled up with us on the sofa, she will sometimes have this look on her face and will then let out a squeal and bite us again.  It doesn't seem to be an aggressive bark/bite if you know what I mean.  And it isn't because we're getting her to do something that she doesn't want to do.  For example, she was chewing the footstool so OH called her over by dangling her tuggy toy, and instead of going for the toy she did the squeal and went from his hands.

I was in floods of tears last night over it, and still have puncture wounds on my hands this morning.  At the moment, it's literally everytime we touch her she bites.  I don't know what to do for the best.

Am I best distracting her before it happens?  Or if it does happen get her to sit and then reward?  We've tried saying 'no' or 'ah ah' and she just gets excited by it.  We've also tried removing her from the room for a few seconds, and she just comes back in and does it again.

Any help is much appreciated; she is my absolute world 

[Flickabella1]

I find this subject quite interesting as beau is quite bitey still. When I took him to the breeder to be clipped I said he can be a bit bitey when being groomed and she was aghast and gave me a long lecture on the subject! She said beau wouldn't dare bite her and none of her dogs would. She said you have to be hard them when little and then soften up as they get older. She didn't say what the consequences are for biting though! All her dogs are happy friendly not head shy great with her 2 year old grandson etc and are shown so used to being handled!!! So I do wonder sometimes about the whole ignoring distracting thing as a lot of them continue to bite using these techniques?!

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

Every time she bites could you not tap her on the nose and say "no".

I did read online that if your dog bites then the minute they bite; leave them alone, no attention, no play - end of play. So they associate biting with no play.

It could be that she's just too excited and carried away and not realising what she is doing?

[Karma]

Every time she bites could you not tap her on the nose and say "no".

I really wouldn't recommend this.    You could end up with a hand shy dog who fears any approach of hands.

Dogs can often mouth more in their adolescence - their molars are settling in so they have a heightened need to chew, and they are testing out boundaries of appropriate behaviour.
The best bet is to give appropriate things to chew, distract and divert biting onto appropriate items, and use of brief time-outs if diverting doesn't work.
Alongside this is it important to teach good play rules - ensure you have a cue word for the beginning and end of tuggy play, and if at any point teeth touch skin, play stops immediately (but briefly).

It's all well and good someone saying you have to be firm when they are young, but if they do that with a pup who is slightly more nervous a "firm" approach (which results in a dog who doesn't dare to be mouthy) can do far more harm than good - and you could end up with a potentially reactive dog who hasn't learned bite inhibition, so when (if) they do bite they inflict serious injury.    It is far more preferable to go for a slower approach whereby the dog actually learns to control their own behaviour...

[abkb]

Thanks all, I'm much calmer about the whole thing now (everything was getting on top of me yesterday and this morning).  Yesterday I thought I had the worst pup in the world, who deliberately wanted to hurt me, which is obviously not the case!

She had a couple of taps on the nose when she was little, but it's something I'd never do again 1 because of what Karma said, but 2 because Molly wasn't put off by it.  She is quite a bolshy (in a good way!) pup, who is very sure of herself, and gets excited by us raising our voices so that's out of the question.  She is not a nervous dog by any means but even so I wouldn't want to resort to it.

Thanks Karma, I definitely think distraction is appropriate, and keeping it all more positive.  I spend two hours with her every lunchtime, and today she only tried to bite my toes a couple of times.  But I think distraction was really helpful, we did lots of training, and when I was eating lunch and she was jumping up, I said 'off' and rewarded her.

We still obviously have a long way to go with her, but I think if we are consistent, firm but fair then we'll get there!

[Archie bean]

Archie is exactly the same at nearly 6 months. He will even sneak up on me and grab my bottom when I'm cooking.  Your post made me feel so much better because I thought I must just be doing it all wrong. He's improving slowly on the ankle biting just with lots of treating when he lets go, plus a really high value treat when he doesn't grab hold in the first place after I say "leave it". Sometimes, even his favourite toy will just not distract him and I have to get up and leave the room. I shut the door behind me, count to 10 and go back in. Sometimes I have to repeat it but usually he will get the message that he ends up by himself if he bites. Glad you are feeling more positive and thanks again for posting and making me feel better too. 

[PennyB]

Every time she bites could you not tap her on the nose and say "no".

I really wouldn't recommend this.    You could end up with a hand shy dog who fears any approach of hands.

Dogs can often mouth more in their adolescence - their molars are settling in so they have a heightened need to chew, and they are testing out boundaries of appropriate behaviour.
The best bet is to give appropriate things to chew, distract and divert biting onto appropriate items, and use of brief time-outs if diverting doesn't work.
Alongside this is it important to teach good play rules - ensure you have a cue word for the beginning and end of tuggy play, and if at any point teeth touch skin, play stops immediately (but briefly).

It's all well and good someone saying you have to be firm when they are young, but if they do that with a pup who is slightly more nervous a "firm" approach (which results in a dog who doesn't dare to be mouthy) can do far more harm than good - and you could end up with a potentially reactive dog who hasn't learned bite inhibition, so when (if) they do bite they inflict serious injury.    It is far more preferable to go for a slower approach whereby the dog actually learns to control their own behaviour...

I agree with all this + continue to do short training sessions - doesn't matter what - but something to give her brain another task to think about + she will begin to listen to you more and you can be in more control. I find if their bum's on the ground then they're listening to me at this age (usually waiting for a treat or for whatever next am going to ask them to do).

[abkb]

Archie is exactly the same at nearly 6 months. He will even sneak up on me and grab my bottom when I'm cooking.  Your post made me feel so much better because I thought I must just be doing it all wrong. He's improving slowly on the ankle biting just with lots of treating when he lets go, plus a really high value treat when he doesn't grab hold in the first place after I say "leave it". Sometimes, even his favourite toy will just not distract him and I have to get up and leave the room. I shut the door behind me, count to 10 and go back in. Sometimes I have to repeat it but usually he will get the message that he ends up by himself if he bites. Glad you are feeling more positive and thanks again for posting and making me feel better too. 

It's good to know I'm not alone!  Last night she was pretty bad but I think if we keep at it we'll get there.

[Nicola81]

Dexter is quite bitey and growly at the moment - I'm hoping it is just because he is young and will grow out of it when his big boy teeth come through!  He seems to like to bite me more than anybody else so last night I tried to distrct him with a tug toy and got him to sit and wait until I gave the command to play with it and he did what he was told!   

When he goes bonkers I have been putting him in his puppy pen for a time out - when he is let out he usually runs and starts nipping my feet again so back in the pen until he comes out and is calm.  Can take about 3 - 4 times of repeating to get him to calm down!

Sometimes I wonder how something so cute looking can get so growly and bitey at times   

[ria-and-baxter]

Karen, you're definitely not alone and I guess selfishly, I was glad to read your post and some of the replies as we've had a similar time with Baxter, now 20 weeks.

We got to the point of contacting the breeder to come and observe to make sure we weren't over-reacting although he then started teething so the biting slowed down a lot for a little while. We re-read all our puppy books, scoured this site, talked to people and just got very confused as we'd done everything suggested, consistently! While some of Baxter's biting was the usual puppy play biting, at other times if he got hold and didn't want to let go, we were literally having to prise his jaws off my legs or arms as he would clamp down and nothing would make him stop. He was consistently breaking my skin to bleeding point and I was covered in bruises as a result and very down about not being able to enjoy time with our puppy. This was happening even though we followed all the advice on diverting, distracting, mental stimulation etc. He has plenty of kongs, we play 'find it', off lead walks, the lot. He had him vet checked too just in case.

We're not over it by a long shot and still have the occassional blip usually when he's overexcited, over frustrated etc. At home he has a pen and a crate which has helped, mainly what's worked has been to have him on his lead whenever he's out of his pen which feels a bit rubbish to not have him able to roam free in the apartment with us but prevention has definitely helped reduce it. This means that if we're having some clicker training, his lead stays on, grooming and handling, lead is on, general bit of play, lead on. Obviously we hope he starts to completely forget this behaviour or learn he doesn't get the same levels of contact with us as he gets older and in every other way he's a funny, wriggly cocker puppy that we love to bits.
 
Good luck to all of you with little cockerdiles, and thanks to those who posted on this, I think I finally feel like it will eventually end 

[Archie bean]

Ria thanks sooo much for sharing that info. Lead on is a great idea. I had such a bad day yesterday I was in bits. Archie grabbed my wrist and somehow I managed to pull a tendon while extricating myself. I already have mild RSI and now my left hand is back to square one. It's a disaster because I'm a musician so it means I can't work so no income. Fortunately it's a slow time of year and I have a couple of weeks before I have another gig so fingers crossed. Yesterday evening I just sat in tears wondering where I had gone wrong with Archie. He just seems so unsettled. He was up most of the night chewing on anything he could find and then he did a wee on my bed. I can only assume he is still teething and struggling with a whirlpool of hormones. I keep telling myself that he will get there and that we will eventually have the lovely huggly cocker relationship that I had with my previous boys. Sending  to all the cockerdile owners.

[8 Hairy Feet]

Aw Emma, sorry to hear
that sweet Archie
is giving you strife.
You will get there, he's only
young still and although it's
such a long time since we had
wee pups(2 at the same time )
I remember threatening them both
with being taken back to where they
came from
I sometimes had both of them
attatched to me and not in a nice way!
It must be worrying though as it's your
livlihood.
Patience and persistance on your part
will pay off  in the end and in the
meantime I hope your immeadiate
injury resolves.
steffxxx

[liamsmum]

I cant believe that you all put up with puppies biting you like this. Dogs are pack animals they bite and push boundries all the time its a dominence thing to be leader of the pack tapping a puppy and saying no will not make a dog hand shy they have to have boundries and you have to be the alpha bitch/dog of your pack ie family, Liam is also very bitey now 4 months old they are a very bold breed and if this isnt controlled now it can cause problems I read the same thing over food and toy aggression and you only have to see posts on rescue centres to see most of the cockers that end up there are food agressive toy agressive or have bitten their overs apart of course from the poor ex breeders. Roll up a newspaper wrap an elastic band found it and when the puppy bites a firm tap with the rolled up paper and a firm NO. It wont hurt them and the noise from the paper warns them off. Dont worry if they a bit frightened they soon come back to you and then you make a fuss and give them lots of love reinforcing you are the alpha bitch/leader of the pack. You should be able to take a toy away food away at any stage! none of this its his toy/bone /his space, all my dogs have been happy spoilt lounge on the sofa Ive have never had a timid or frightened dog or one that has ever shown agression in any way just a devoted family friend. Puppies biteing is just a normal thing make sure they have toys but rotate them so they dont get bored, if its play biteing just distract with a toy but they have to have boundries just like children. And they will be a better dog for it.

[jaybee]

For me, boundaries don't equate to me punishing my dog in that way. In the same way (using your own analogy) that for a child, i don't think boundaries have to be enforced by smacking.

Not for me at all i'm afraid.

[8 Hairy Feet]

No way on this earth would I
smack a puppy with a newspaper
I'm sorry if you disagree and futhermore
I don't believe in your theory of
"being Alpha"
steffxxx