No Idea what's happening now.

[louise1608]

 

I posted a few weeks back about my (now 15 month old toddler) and Alfie. Ryan was going through a phase at that time where he would not leave poor alfie alone and would hit his face, pull his tail etc. We were on guard for days making sure Ryan didn't hurt Alfie. After these few days Ryan was bored of chasing him and he hasn't bothered since. Alfie seemed happy too. All of the sudden Alfie is acting out of character - he won't relax around Ryan, he often sleeps under the kitchen table or begs to go sleep upstairs and he doesn't come down til I go up and get him. I'm giving Alfie the space he wants away from the toddling terror, but am I doing the right thing? I can say with certainty that Ryan has not intentionally hurt Alfie since the phase and has only once accidently dropped a toy car on his head. Ryan always laughs at Alfie and even strokes him nice and gentle like I showed him...but alfie is still on edge - sometimes he sits on my knee and shakes like a leaf - I try to put him at ease with a treat (and a tasty one too!) but he wont eat it...so I really don't get it. I've asked around and a lot of people have said he may be looking for attention and synpathy? Do dogs even do that?! Or are these signs that he's scared? Sometimes he'll lay sleeping on the sofa though and other times he wants to get as far away from ryan as possible  

Anyone got any advice?  

[JeffandAnnie]

  a lot of people have said he may be looking for attention and synpathy? Do dogs even do that?!

No, they don't. How old is Alfie?

[louise1608]

he's 18 months

[louise1608]

Also I think it might be relevant to you those of you who don't know that we got Alfie as a 12 week old pup in late september and Ryan was born late october so they have grown up together, this is totally out of the blue

[Karma]

If Alfie wants space from your toddler, that's what he should have...  
Alfie can't tell the difference between intentional harm and accidental harm... and he is unlikely to have forgotten the chasing and pestering either.

As was said in your orignal thread, dogs and toddlers really need a LOT of space from each other - rather than Alfie sitting on your knee shaking, encourage him to go to a safe place where your toddler can't get to him.  Alfie should not have your toddlers attention forced upon him, even when it is "positive" attention, as toddlers make sudden movements, or drop things, and this can be scary for a dog...

[louise1608]

Thank you Karma that is what I have been doing - as soon as he seems uncomfortable I've been giving him a dental stick and letting him go upstairs to relax where the mini monster can't get to him, I just wasn't sure whether I was doing the right thing..

[Karma]

Sounds great.

While they may have grown up together, Ryan is very different from the baby Alfie was first socialised with.    The toddler months tend to be the ones that dogs are most uncomfortable with - once Ryan can throw a ball or similar for Alfie, I'm sure they'll revert to being great friends... in the meantime encouraging/supporting a safe distance really is the best way to go.

[bluegirl]

We had a situation that was similar as I also may have said before. My cocker was 18mths old when we brought our first baby home. Bonnie up until that point was the love of my life (she still was but she decided she wasn't keen on baby). She would back away from him and took herself away whenever possible. She went from being my shadow to lying in her basket whilst I sat in the living room most of the day with baby. It broke my heart to see her like this, and I wondered if I was cruel for not considering that maybe she would be better with another family. That broke my heart too as I don't see dogs as disposable and knew that she was still very much loved and had all her needs tended to just her nose seemed to have been pushed out of joint. I thought it may be temporary so we carried on.
Bonnie did change but her needs were always met she was well fed, cared for and continued to get walks. Her behaviour continued until my son was around 2-3 yrs old so it was an awful long time to see her mope around.
I always said if dogs could become depressed then Bonnie had it.
She did eventually come round but I can't say she ever liked my children it was more the fact that they became less dependent on me and that gave her an opening. I always encouraged her to continue to be with me, but when she took herself off I would leave her to settle on her own rather than push her to do something she felt uncomfortable with.

I can't give you any answers but just to say it worked out with us but it took a long time. But throughout it all my boys always loved Bonnie, she just didn't love them back....until she realised toddlers where a great source of food and at that point she tolerated them. I always locked her in the kitchen though away from anyone else's children as I knew young children ultimately made her nervous and I never wanted a situation to occur.

I always felt that because she came first it confused her how this baby took over and changed her life and her.

[penguins87]

I know it's slightly different but after our beaus last and final litter we kept Dora . This gave us three dogs . Lottie our other girl would just growl or give her a warning snap if she had had enough or didn't want to interact at all and Dora learnt to listen to these signals and stay away . Sometimes it was just a look . But beau would tolerate anything taking her food jumping pulling ears you name it she took it . Then as Dora lost her puppy licence and got bigger and more agile  beau took to upstairs for whenever she needed a break .

The point of my posting is that each of my  dogs is different in the way it deals with things when it needs a break . I think your Alfie is brilliant as he could have decided to be like lottie so please don't think it's for sympathy it's more in my opinion for his sanity . So give him his space and good on you for being as vigilant as you are until Ryan learns to respect alfies space . I also allow beau to depart the room when friends arrive with dogs . Maybe Alfie will need the same when ryans friends come round .
 

[seaangler]

Its strange when it works the other away around...Are Gemma seeks attention....That been her nightmare she just loves to play...No matter who it is...I have trained her not to jump up and i would say 85% of the time she will stay down...She greets small children by the long body waggle and the snuggle up with her nose..if you know what i mean harry....

Its just the cat in are house that disappears up stairs when the grand kids come...And like your dog the cat to likes his space away from the children...And will shoot past them when given the opportunity to...

But like your self i have seen ware dogs are frighten of children in the same house hold(and the dog hides away up stairs cowling away from the kids and the showting going on) and it does have an everlasting impact on the poor animal and needs to be treated.....sooner than later...

One of the dogs we had Meany years ago had the same problem as yours as my youngest would never lieave the poor animal alone.... if you would like me to tell you how we solved it, let me know.....

It is fairly simple as it was on one of Victoria stilwels shows its me or the dog show on sky tv ware the poor animal was being hounded by the there children....Its is not new at all as i said we done this meny years ago...

Best of luck what ever you deside to do...Chris

[louise1608]

Thanks everyone for your replies! I think if I were Alfie I would probably want a break from him too - although last night we had a whole new problem to deal with

Because I've been letting Alfie take refuge upstairs on our bed I think he's got it into his head that its his bed now. He's always slept with us and gets himself snuggled between the pillows at night and doesnt move or bother us. Last night Richard awoke to find alfie on his pillow and in his sleep deprived state pulled the pillow away and alfie growled and snapped and bit Richards hand. I was so shocked as I didn't know Alfie had it in him he has never bitten...but within seconds of doing it his ears went down and tail went under - he knows he was wrong but I'm not sure how we handle that.

[Karma]

Firstly he doesn't know he did wrong - he will have responded in that way because of the whole situation...

I can understand why he bit.  He is in (for him) a fairly high stress environment, so he is on edge... he was asleep and suddenly disturbed... in a state of high alert, but sleepiness, he reacted defensively.
However, it is a situation I don't think you can ignore, and I really think you need to a) get him checked at the vets to make sure there isn't a medical issue which has made him more uneasy and b) get a (positive, reward based) behaviourist (steer clear of any who start talking about dominance and pack theory) to visit and observe him so that you can do everything possible to reduce the potential for stress (and so stress reactions, like biting). 

I do think that, as you have a toddler, it is important that Alfie has an absolute place of refuge where he is not going to be disturbed at all - while your bed may be refuge from Ryan, it's still not a space of his own, and he has shown that he is still feeling on edge when he is there.   Our dog has her bed and her crate, both of which are utterly out of bounds to all humans... her crate is her ultimate place of retreat, and if she has taken up refuge in there there is no question of encouraging her out or anything, she is just left to it until she wants to come out - the only reason we put hands in the crate is to give her treats when she is left.  Alfie doesn't have anywhere that "safe" and is showing you that he doesn't have anywhere her can fully relax.  Would it be possible to have a crate or bed for him in your room?  I don't think dogs sleeping with owners is a problem in general, but I really think Alfie needs his own space where he can feel completely unthreatened....

[bluegirl]

I'm not condoning what happened but if it were the middle of the night maybe Alfie was slightly disorientated and just snapped out instinctively and then realised where he was and what had just happened.

[louise1608]

I really do think that was the problem guys - he was just shocked but I love the idea of a crate of some kind. Alfie has his own basket and he loves to curl up in it but Ryan started bothering him in there during "the phase" and now even though alfie will still go there to sleep if he sees ryan coming he gets strait out - I'm thinking about letting him be in his basket and keep the baby gate closed so that ryan can't get into the kitchen...I'm really irritated that this has started happening now as we have been planning and preparing for our new arrival Amber who we're supposed to be picking up tomorrow and this whole situation has started to make things really hard. My partner has been off these last few days and he has been controlling the situation - Alfie doesn't seem on edge at all today he laid on the sofa and watched ryan play with his toys on the floor and didnt cry to go upstairs once...time will tell I guess I just need to make sure alfie has somewhere to be where he can relax and feel safe....any advice on the new dog? I really don't want this to affect something we have been planning for so long...and fyi amber is a 12 month old cockerpoo...alfie has never ever ever been agressive or anything to another dog - he is well socialised but in and outside him own house so I'm keeping my fingers tightly crossed that they can be good friends...heck maybe it'll even help for alfie to have a dog to play in the garden with? I dunno...

[Maria n Dennis]

I would personally get him checked out by the vet , Dennis became irritable around the children and just wanted to get away , they weren't pestering him but he was wary of them approaching and I couldn't understand why he'd changed. Unfortunately it wasn't until Dennis became I'll that I thought back over what had been happening and realised Dennis was in pain. I'm defiantly not saying your Alfie could have anything like Dennis , just that when they are under the weather or in pain it's not always easy for us to tell and their behaviour is likely to change.