Fraser attacked another dog!

[Helen]

I drop my lead Chris

Perhaps you have been unlucky with the collies you have met - the ones my OH grew up on the farm with were not at all human or dog aggressive, and the ones I have met with my dog have all been very polite if greeted politely by other dogs - even the fear aggressive one who was rescued from a barn as a pup and was found surrounded by his 8 dead siblings 

Anyway - this is going off topic - can we please get back to Tritonx's query

Thank you 

back to Fraser - it could just be that he's grown up now and doesn't like rudeness (I can't see to judge him!) - Jarvis is pretty placid but will not tolerate rude dogs and will not tolerate another dog putting a paw on his shoulder or their heads across his back and will tell them off - it never goes into an attack but the snarling and teeth baring and warning is all there. 

We can't see it so we can't really give you the best advice, only our own experiences.  I would definitely get for a start Brenda Aloff's book and also seek the help of a good behaviourist as it could escalate.

Ben's mum's post is spot on imho 

[Danni and Freya]

Must agree with Helen above. When Freya turned two she suddenly changed her response to rude dogs and over excited puppies. At the time I was worried she was getting aggressive but on advice from the forum I realised she has just become less tolerant of rude behaviour and was justified in giving the other dog a bit of a "telling off". She has also calmed slightly since then, not going off on one as regularly, but as with Helens Jarvis, she won't let a dog put its paw on her shoulder or its head.

Berty is one of her best dog friends and they get on brilliantly most of the time, he is only 9 months, but he put his head on her back the other day and she spat out her ball faster than i've ever seen her do and gave him a very loud and snappy telling off  needless to say he learnt his lesson.

As others have said its difficult to give advice on these behaviours without seeing whats going on, but the scenario above is a possibility for Fraser. At the time I posted about Freyas behaviour as it was very shocking and very different to how she had handled herself before

[Cockertime Blues]

Our Mollie (RIP) was sometimes unpredictable, snapping and snarling to tell a dog off, not always with justification from what I could see.  I always dropped the lead on the basis that she could then flee if necessary (the snapping was always fear based) and so I wouldn't be hurt (can't help dogs or anyone if I'm hurt myself).

Alfie greets all dogs politely.  He's spot on .  If he sees another dog approaching he will stop and appear to assess any potential threat before proceeding to greet.  Downside is if he thinks he can get away with a quick hump  even though castrated 5 years ago.

[tritonx]

Just checked Brenda Aloff's books on Amazon (pretty expensive  ). Which would be the more useful purchase, Canine Body Language or Aggression in Dogs. Fraser isn't an aggressive dog except in the very specific occasions I've described, so I wonder if a lot of the situations in the book wouldn't be relevant to him. On the other hand, it contains how to deal with it advice. But the Body Language one would be overall useful and interesting though perhaps I could find the same info free on Youtube. Has anyone on COL used either of these books?

[Toni-UK]

I got the canine body language one for christmas,it is fantastic,worth the money.
I believe it has a section on aggressive body language 

[dal55]

I'm glad that one or two of you have mentioned your dogs not tolerating "rude " dogs.  Cassie is (or was ) very submissive but in the last six months or so will really tell an over exuberant dog off. She sounds dreadful But I have managed to see that she doesn't even try to bite, just make lots of threatening noise.
As to dropping the lead, sorry folks but I just can't. If I had done that when she was attacked she would be dead or at the least very badly injured .It was only that she was on a lead and by me that I managed to kick 3 shades of brown out of the attacking dog

[seaangler]

Quote.....I can see how it would be helpful to go a walkies with a behaviourist who is more experienced at reading dog behaviour as I must be missing subtle clues. Even watching the situation carefully as I've started to do, I cannot see the moment of trigger from Fraser doing the usual things of successful greeting to sudden snarling aggression (nor what it is in the other dog's behaviour that might have prompted the shift.)


The only other suggestion i can give you...Is to try a pack walk with a behaviorist..(LIKE YOU HAVE MENTION ABOVE).And this man does pack walks once a month it cost five pound and it would be up to you if its worth it or not...

My post keep disappearing for no apparent reason...on this posting..

Any way have a look at the link and see what you think... http://www.caninecoaching.co.uk/page/pack_walks


 

[Helen]

Tritonx is in Canada Chris.

[seaangler]

Tritonx is in Canada Chris.

She will not make this weeks  pack walk then....

[ZoeN]

I don't really have any advice, but just to let you know that you're not alone. Bess is also 2 1/2, and she can be unpredictable with other dogs. Mostly fine, mostly friendly, or she takes a wide berth around those she's not too sure of, but occasionally she gets snappy or all-out aggressive (even when, like you say, they start off all tails wagging) and I can rarely see why it started or who started it. I think it can be the littlest thing sometimes.

It all started when she was attacked (unprovoked) by a Jack Russell, who she lashed back at and it took me completely by surprise. After that, she barked and growled at almost every dog for a few days, which really worried me, but she eventually calmed down, and after a few friendly meetings was okay again for a while.

All I can say is, all dogs are prone to it, no matter how friendly. It's not always a bad thing if they are simply putting another dog in it's place, and most experienced dog owners are fine about it as they understand. It doesn't mean you have a 'bad' dog or you're a bad owner, it's just in their instinct. I feel reassured by comments here from owners of slightly older dogs who have calmed down. Maybe it's just a learning curve.

[tritonx]

As always, it's tremendously reassuring to hear from other cocker owners on this board. I've never brought up a dog before and it is indeed a learning curve for me as well as for him. 2 1/2 must be an age when a dog comes into its full adulthood, finished with making puppy brain assumptions about how to behave, but still a bit inexperienced about how to do adult assertiveness. I really get the impression he's feeling his oats, a bit of laddishness coming out in him and if he can get away with dominating a smaller, younger dog, he'll try it on (or humping a willing female). I've never seen him do it with a bigger dog. Then it's all low stance, slow movement and careful reading of the bigger dog's signals. I'm adjusting too from having a silly, happy go lucky, love the world puppy fellow to this new personality where he has begun to show that he's a real dog with big teeth and the ability to cause harm if he really wanted to. Or at least make a great show of that potential. Live and learn, and what a great place this is for getting the information and support you need as you learn the ropes. Thanks to everyone who answered my call 

[Flickabella1]

I find these topics quite interesting as I think in the short term most people are looking out for their dog.as karma put it she doesn't care about the other dog at that point. Likewise I do not care about the other dog attacking mine at that point or about it's issues or why it's acting like that. I am more worried about the long term affect in my dog and the safety of my dog and would do anything to protect it and would hate for the roles to be revered as in your situation so I do sympathise.

[Karma]

Just to come back to this and say, yes, it would be the Canine Body Language book you'd be best getting... it's got fantastically clear photos of a range of body language and can be really eye-opening.
The Aggression in dogs is a good book, but very in-depth and really for someone with a significant interest in behaviour (alongside other books, as no one approach is going to right every time!!!). 

[seaangler]

Just to come back to this and say, yes, it would be the Canine Body Language book you'd be best getting... it's got fantastically clear photos of a range of body language and can be really eye-opening.
The Aggression in dogs is a good book, but very in-depth and really for someone with a significant interest in behaviour (alongside other books, as no one approach is going to right every time!!!).  

 One of the books that i read also with pictures in it(on Canine body language) said look for....Scratching at self, and Sudden interest in sniffing very misleading!!!...

[Karma]

How is that misleading??

Sniffing and scratching are calming signals.
Yes, you have to consider them alongside other body language cues, but they ARE known and effective calming signals (and techniques).
This is one reason why I always play a simple scent game after a training session with Honey, so that she can calm herself down and not expect further stimulation.