Black / brown Colouring in litters

[kalami]

Someone I know has two working cocker dogs. They are litter mates. One is black with a black nose and one brown with a brown nose. I'm a bit confused how this is possible. Is it possible?

[Jane S]

Not sure I understand? All brown dogs have brown noses as they can't produce black pigmentation & yes it's quite possible to have liver and black puppies in the same litter eg a liver dam mated to a black sire who carries the liver gene will produce 50% black pups (all carrying liver) and 50% liver puppies.

[Evadee]

Tia and Jake's dam and sire had mix of black and brown dogs with the relevant coloured noses as well as golden in both of the litters 

[AnnieLou]

Polly's litter was 2 liver girls and 3 black boys. Mum was liver, Dad was black.

[Jeanette]

Tia and Jake's dam and sire had mix of black and brown dogs with the relevant coloured noses as well as golden in both of the litters 

Did the golds have black noses?   I've always wondered why some golds have black noses and some golds have the light orangey noses. 

[Evadee]

Tia and Jake's dam and sire had mix of black and brown dogs with the relevant coloured noses as well as golden in both of the litters 

Did the golds have black noses?   I've always wondered why some golds have black noses and some golds have the light orangey noses. 

Just been looking back at the photos of both litters, looks like from what I can see that the golds had brown noses but looks like the Dam who is gold has a black nose.  Sire was brown.  Both litters produced some "and tan" pups too (as in my Tia). 

[Ebbysmum]

Ebony's mum was black and tan, and the sire was golden. She was one of three black and tan and the other two were chocolate and tan. They are both solids 

[Jane S]

Tia and Jake's dam and sire had mix of black and brown dogs with the relevant coloured noses as well as golden in both of the litters 

Did the golds have black noses?   I've always wondered why some golds have black noses and some golds have the light orangey noses. 

Golds have brown noses if they carry two copies of the liver gene (but they can also have faded pigment on normally black noses due to seasonal changes/hormones etc)

[Jeanette]

Tia and Jake's dam and sire had mix of black and brown dogs with the relevant coloured noses as well as golden in both of the litters 

Did the golds have black noses?   I've always wondered why some golds have black noses and some golds have the light orangey noses. 

Golds have brown noses if they carry two copies of the liver gene (but they can also have faded pigment on normally black noses due to seasonal changes/hormones etc)

Makes sense, probably why the lighter nosed ones have lighter eyes as well, I've seen some golds with greenish eyes whereas Quinn has really dark eyes (almost black) and black nose because there is no liver gene.     

[Jane S]

Makes sense, probably why the lighter nosed ones have lighter eyes as well, I've seen some golds with greenish eyes whereas Quinn has really dark eyes (almost black) and black nose because there is no liver gene.     

Yes that's exactly right - the golds with greeny eyes will be liver carriers (you tend to see this more in working strain dogs where there is a lot of liver in the lines)

[Evadee]

This thread is really interesting, my Jake (liver) has the lighter greener eyes, his sire who is also liver has the dark brown eyes.  So liver can have either colour eyes then?

I just love his eyes    the colour is so soft and they are very gentle looking 


Thanks Kalami for the original post, I've learnt a lot 

[kalami]

Thank you all.
Isn't nature a wonderful thing.
Bella's gold with light brown / pink nose and light coloured eyes. I love her colouring and so used to her I'm always amused (in a nice way) by golds with black noses.

[KellyT]

love genetics and all this kind of talk 

I've been so intrigued by Hazel's eyes, which are green in the middle and a tan/gold on the edges ... and she has a browny-pink nose too so although she's a chic roan, does that mean she carries 2 copies of the liver / chic gene, or because she's a particolour does that make the single liver gene dominant?

[SkyeandOllie]

there are 2 golden litter brothers on here,  I think they are called Berri and Bramble?!  One has black pigment and the other has pinkky/brown.

[Jane S]

I've been so intrigued by Hazel's eyes, which are green in the middle and a tan/gold on the edges ... and she has a browny-pink nose too so although she's a chic roan, does that mean she carries 2 copies of the liver / chic gene, or because she's a particolour does that make the single liver gene dominant?

As a liver roan, yes your Hazel has two copies of the recessive liver gene (if she only had one, she would not be liver but would carry the gene for it) A bit of an oversimplification sorry as other genes can come into play and affect colour (eg the red/gold dogs with liver pigmentation have 2 copies of the liver gene but also two copies of the gene which produces red/gold)