Research concerning early Spay/neutering

[LurcherGirl]

If the same op was done on pre-pubertal boys, there would be an outcry!

Probably, but if we fed boys on raw meat or just processed dry food, kept them on lead outdoors and stopped them from having sex ever... there would be an outcry too, wouldn't there! Dogs are not human, I don't think that comparison should be made (in this case), but it is the reason why this subject usually triggers a fairly emotional response.  

[Petepreston]

...but if we fed boys on raw meat or just processed dry food, kept them on lead outdoors and stopped them from having sex ever... there would be an outcry too, wouldn't there!

But that's just the married men. 

[Helen]

If the same op was done on pre-pubertal boys, there would be an outcry!

Probably, but if we fed boys on raw meat or just processed dry food, kept them on lead outdoors and stopped them from having sex ever... there would be an outcry too, wouldn't there! Dogs are not human, I don't think that comparison should be made (in this case), but it is the reason why this subject usually triggers a fairly emotional response.  

So are you saying the information in Jenny's links is purely emotional?

[phoenix]

Keeping the topic purely medical,  the discoveries on the orthopaedic side ,if the numbers investigated were statistically viable, are worth more study.  Bone and joint problems seem to me to be much more common than years ago, and may not be solely genetic. Perhaps some of  the responsible, quality breeders on this site would be able to offer  views on the differences they may have noticed in puppes they have bred, that have or haven't been neutered. I appreciate it is unlikely that they have kept in touch with pups that were sold, but it would be very interesting to do family studies.

[LurcherGirl]

So are you saying the information in Jenny's links is purely emotional?

No, not at all (after all, I quoted the part I responded to   ). I am happy to go along with facts, I am happy to go along with research results and I also believe that in many areas dogs are very similar to humans. But most people don't argue with facts about early neutering, they argue with statements like "I would never do this to my puppy", it's like "neutering a young child" or as in this thread's example "If the same op was done on pre-pubertal boys, there would be an outcry!" etc. which has nothing to do with facts but with personal emotional opinion! And that's what I am trying to get across! Don't do what feels right when it comes to neutering, do your research on the pros and cons (and there sure are plenty of both) and then make an educated decision for your particular dog and your particular circumstances - not an emotional one that has no factual basis.

As some of you know, I have no problem if someone decides to neuter early and I have no problem accepting people's decision not to neuter... but both decisions should be well researched and considered, not just be based on feelings, hearsay and (in this case) a misplaced comparison to human children.  

[Edited] PS. I just wanted to add that just a couple of years ago, I was totally slated for agreeing with early neutering in some circumstances whenever the issue came up and I stated my opinion. I am pleased to say that these days, people do overall take a more balanced view and more research is quoted and requested and in general various opinions accepted! That's progress and will enable us to hopefully in a few years time have more information that will help us better making the right decision for our dogs - whatever that decision may be. 

[LurcherGirl]

Perhaps some of  the responsible, quality breeders on this site would be able to offer  views on the differences they may have noticed in puppes they have bred, that have or haven't been neutered.

Now that I would be very interested in.  

Bone and joint problems seem to me to be much more common than years ago, and may not be solely genetic.

Possibly, or are the diagnostics just better with owners prepared to do more about it (and vets being able to offer more options rather than either just live with it or pts), the diets less adequate in some cases perhaps and being in the age of massive commercial breeding, just dogs being used for breeding that are not as sound healthwise (including bones/joints) as they should be or perhaps used to be in the past, much more inbreeding going on where these sort of issues are much more perpetuated than in the past? (And no, I don't generalise this to all breeders, but it's things to think about...).

It is a minefield - and I don't know the answer. I do feel much more research is needed and I also feel that - like someone else has mentioned - with neutering you sometimes have to take the bad with the good, making a balanced risk assessment as it were.    

[janandted]

I too have been researching this subject over the past few months  It is difficult as much of the research is carried out by vets who ,if we are cynical about it, have much to gain from carrying out this procedure . However I have decided that dogs have their hormones for a reason,( and though we are not talking about humans , I now know the effect our loss of oestrogen has on the body ),there are also too many other risks associated with it despite reducing the risk of Pyometra and uterine cancer. For that reason I have decided to wait until Mollie is fully mature and take each season at a time  We all make our decisions with our dogs best interest at heart and with the information we have at the time  This is the conclusion I have come to,not necessarily what others should do 

[janandted]

I'm going to a seminar early next year in ref to this subject - lot more to early spaying/neutering than meets the eye I feel & wanted to find out more for myself 

http://www.holisticvet.co.uk/events.html

This looks interesting Lindsey,is it only re neutering dogs ? Is spaying of bitches being discussed too ?

[CockersIndie]

i have a feeling my vet is very 'pro-neutering'. I took Indie for her first 6 month check up, and he immediately asked if we were intending to breed from her. I said no, but i didn't want to spay her just yet and explained that we'd let her have at least one or two seasons (and he ended my sentence for me with 'and then get her spayed'). I appreciate sometimes a vets prerogative is to prevent unwanted litters, but a responsible dog owner will prevent them behaviourally (ie. walking on lead where there aren't dogs, supervising garden visits etc). Not everyone is responsible enough though i guess.

[lindseyp]

I'm going to a seminar early next year in ref to this subject - lot more to early spaying/neutering than meets the eye I feel & wanted to find out more for myself

http://www.holisticvet.co.uk/events.html

This looks interesting Lindsey,is it only re neutering dogs ? Is spaying of bitches being discussed too ?

I'm not too sure Jan? - just appealed to me Knowledgeable vet & interesting subject that may or may not have relevance to Toby in later life? 
You're welcome to come along with me if you fancy it Jan - it's only over in Sway & they do a pretty nice ploughmans for lunch & refreshments & delicious home made cakes for afternoon tea 

[LottieLu]

I'm going to a seminar early next year in ref to this subject - lot more to early spaying/neutering than meets the eye I feel & wanted to find out more for myself

http://www.holisticvet.co.uk/events.html

This looks interesting Lindsey,is it only re neutering dogs ? Is spaying of bitches being discussed too ?

I'm not too sure Jan? - just appealed to me Knowledgeable vet & interesting subject that may or may not have relevance to Toby in later life?  
You're welcome to come along with me if you fancy it Jan - it's only over in Sway & they do a pretty nice ploughmans for lunch & refreshments & delicious home made cakes for afternoon tea  

and cakes.....did you say cakes??  

[elaine.e]

I'm going to a seminar early next year in ref to this subject - lot more to early spaying/neutering than meets the eye I feel & wanted to find out more for myself

http://www.holisticvet.co.uk/events.html

This looks interesting Lindsey,is it only re neutering dogs ? Is spaying of bitches being discussed too ?

I'm not too sure Jan? - just appealed to me Knowledgeable vet & interesting subject that may or may not have relevance to Toby in later life?  
You're welcome to come along with me if you fancy it Jan - it's only over in Sway & they do a pretty nice ploughmans for lunch & refreshments & delicious home made cakes for afternoon tea  

and cakes.....did you say cakes??  

Yes, and they will be very tasty cakes too as the seminar is being organised by the dog training club that I go to and they do excellent cake. I'll be there

[JaspersMum]

I'm going to a seminar early next year in ref to this subject - lot more to early spaying/neutering than meets the eye I feel & wanted to find out more for myself

http://www.holisticvet.co.uk/events.html

This looks interesting Lindsey,is it only re neutering dogs ? Is spaying of bitches being discussed too ?

I'm not too sure Jan? - just appealed to me Knowledgeable vet & interesting subject that may or may not have relevance to Toby in later life?  
You're welcome to come along with me if you fancy it Jan - it's only over in Sway & they do a pretty nice ploughmans for lunch & refreshments & delicious home made cakes for afternoon tea  

and cakes.....did you say cakes??  

Yes, and they will be very tasty cakes too as the seminar is being organised by the dog training club that I go to and they do excellent cake. I'll be there

That suddenley seemed even more appealing!

[lindseyp]

I'll be there

great to know you're going too Elaine - always nice to see a friendly face at events like these 
I must say, your training club hold some excellent seminars over at Sway Elaine - most of the others are 'up country' & much further afield   
I would loved to of gone to the 3 day seminar in the Lakes district....would of been fascinating