Advice and help with possible Colitis or IBD

[ANJ]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on the site, so hope it all goes to plan! 

I have looked at a number of posts concerning Colitis and IBD but just wanted your advice, please.

We had our now 20 month old Cocker, Otis, from 9 weeks old. 

Since he was about 6 months old, we have had problems with his tummy.  His morning stool would be fine, then as they day would progress, his stools would get more and more squidgy.
We agreed with the Vet to just keep him on his kibble (RC at that point in time).  During last year, we had several visits to the vet, where Otis' had such loose stools, which we could not fix ourselves.  On two occasions, stool samples were collected over three days and analysed but came back normal.  General blood tests were taken and were also normal.  Despite this, Otis was put on Metronidazole for 10 or 14 days just to make sure. At all times, the tummy would settle on the medication but the stools would turn loose again after only days or weeks.
 
On most occasions, Otis is happy and alert and his bowel movements are controlled, so not generally accidents, if you know what I mean.  Still, though, I am at home most of the time with him so I take him out regularly. 

Come December last year, I went to the vet and said that I just was not happy with the stools he was passing.  They would contain mucus and also blood stains at times.
The vet said that he was quite sure he has IBD but would need to do a biopsy to confirm. 

What we did in December was to put him on a hydrolysed protein diet (Specific COD HY Allergy Management Plus), which is a dry kibble specifically designed for dogs with IBD.  We agreed to only give him this and NOTHING else at all.  The first 3 moth of this year, his stools have just been amazing!!!  Firm all through the day no matter what and I thought we had it sorted. 
HOWEVER………, this was not to last .  Again slowly, we have seen the return of stools going softer as the day goes on and the mucus + blood stains returning. May this year, he had a bout of bad watery bowels  where we managed to turn him around for a couple of weeks but then it returned and once again we had to go to the vets to get him on antibiotics to try and solve it.  This time again it cleared up OK but one week after coming off the antibiotics, his stools are very, very soft and slightly blood stained. This is where we are today.

My question to you is, whether there are other tests I should have done before we turn to the biopsy??  I don't know why but I feel so saddened to think of having this biopsy done……  I guess I am worried by the potential lifelong medication he might be subjected to as well, such as steroids.  I am also worried about putting him under if it can be avoided.

-Has anyone had experience with the hydrolysed foods and would it be worthwhile trying another?  What about allergy testing? -the food he is on, although it contains hydrolysed salmon, the rice is not hydrolysed, so perhaps he is allergic to that?  I can see that some people have x-rays and ultra sounds carried out but am I just putting off the biopsy adding further costs for us?

Otis’ brother also has a sensitive tummy and his stools too go softer as the day goes on but not with mucus or blood stains and not as many bouts of true tummy upsets which cannot be turned around without medication.  -They do not feel like it is a problem generally the way we do. In their opinion, a biopsy is very extreme.

Sorry for the long post, I just don't know what to do for the best! I know it sounds daft but his stools are taking over our life! –Every time someone takes him for a walk his stool get a mark out of 10!!  I am just so worried about him and that I am not doing enough to help him. 
I do have an appointment to speak to my vet again tomorrow evening.  I just would love to hear some advice on how others have been able to manage this problem.   Can they still live a happy life with this problem?  I know he generally seems very happy and not bothered by it but I just think it is not right with mucus and blood stains, it must be sore, the poor thing.

Hope all you knowledgeable cocker owners have some advice.

Anette & Otis

[Poppsie]

Hi Anette and welcome to COL  have a look at this website it might help a little 

Dianne x x x

http://www.vetbase.co.uk/information/colitis-explained.php

[Ruby Tuesday]

I know this isn't what you asked, but you might like to google Canine Orego Stim. It is a purely natural formula based on oregano.
I use it for my chickens then found out they do a canine version. I've been using it for less than 3 weeks and both our dogs poops are noticeably firmer and much easy to pick up. It may not help, but you've got nothing to lose really because it won't do any harm. You just add a few drops to their water each day.

[Nicola]

I'm sorry to hear about Otis  Tilly, my almost 8 year old rescue working Cocker has eosinophilic IBD, I don't know if hers is one of the threads that you've read (it's very long!). This is it in case you haven't seen it:

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=70102.0

Tilly had x-rays and ultrasound when she was being diagnosed, but I did then opt to have the biopsy done as I wanted to know exactly what we were dealing with and it was really the only way. She coped with it pretty well, although she was left with a massive shaved patch and quite a long scar (about 4-5 inches) but this healed up well. There is obviously a risk when taking intestinal biopsies of peritonitis if there is any leakage or accidental puncturing of the bowel wall, but any surgery entails risk and I wanted to know what was wrong with her so I could get her the most appropriate treatment.

This was her a few days after the biopsy, she looked dreadful at the time as she'd lost so much weight



Anyway, it's a very long story but basically we tried every prescription diet under the sun for Tills including the hydrolysed ones and at one point all she could eat was cottage cheese and boiled rice. She also had an array of drugs including metronidazole, azathioprine, cyclosporin, zantac and good old prednisone, which she is still on now. None of these diets or drugs worked for her, the pred manages some of the symptoms to an extent but our lucky breakthrough was me accidentally finding that she could tolerate Skinners duck and rice hypoallergenic food - I have no idea why, but I'm not going to question it. She's been on it for probably about a year and a half-ish now and the difference in her is miraculous, she hasn't had any problems with her stomach in a very long time except if she scavenges or eats something she shouldn't (which is pretty much anything except the Skinners) but even then it's nothing like before. I'm not saying that Skinners is a 'cure' for IBD or that it'll work for every dog, but it has certainly worked for Tills, she now looks like this (a few months ago, I haven't uploaded any photos for a while!)



She does still need the prednisone - I'm aware of all the implications of long-term steriod use but unfortunately Tilly also has other serious medical problems, the main one being osteoarthritis in almost all her joints and it is this that is likely now to severely limit her lifespan rather than the IBD, so she also needs the steroids and painkillers to manage this as well. However, in terms of her stomach she is pretty much fine now. She's never put back on the muscle and condition she had before but that's also due to the OA and steriod use too as her joints are all pretty much shot. The difference is astounding though, she spent days in intensive care at Edinburgh University vet school at one point and I came within days of having her pts shortly after that because we just could not get her stabilised and she was literally wasting away, she was so sick  but once she turned the corner she did really well - until the OA started to get really bad but that's just life. At least she isn't really contending with both of them at the same time.

This is probably a bit garbled as it's such a long saga and I've tried to condense it and I'm in a rush as I'm going out just now, but if you have any questions please ask away.

[maddy74]

Willow had runny and often muccussy poops and sometimes containing blood as a pup, it was so upsetting to see.She was always fine in herself with the exception of slightly less energy when it was really bad, she would shed weight and look so thin in just a couple of days. 

It seemed like most of her puppyhood we were inspecting what she had done poops wise and we were always having to stop her usual food and give her chicken and rice, it was a nightmare.

After taking her to the vets and them saying they thought it was colitis after them initially saying that spaniels do have adrelin poops, and they thought it was this as they started off firm and would get sloppier as the walk or day progressed. She had pro kolin paste and RC sensitivity control kibble and seemed to grow out of it  She does still have the occasional adrenalin sloppy poop but it does not contain blood or mucus.

I hope you get it sorted soon as it is such a worry xx

[kaycee]

we have 7 cockers every now & then one of them will have runny bellies i think some times its one of those things with dogs, I always have a pot of digestive powders in the cupboard, all my sons have dogs and their friends we often have phone calls asking if they can borrow some digestive powders, its a must in my doggy cupboard .It works ,and we use the human version for IBS and Hiatus Hernia so its a must for us too.These powders firm up the stools  and re balance , cleanse and heal the tummy wall!!! the suppliers number is 01379 788170 if you wpould like to try them.kx.

[Helen]

there is a massive difference between colitis and IBD - as you can see from the photo's of Tilly and her story     

I really hope that it's not IBD but if it is Nicola is a wealth of knowledge 

[ANJ]

Hi every one,

Just wanted to say thank you for all your comments and advise you gave me.  I know it is ages ago but I have been off long terms sick and without a computer for some time also.  Feel very rude for not acknowledging the responses until now!
We have kept Otis on the hydrolysed diet but we are now using some Rx Vitamin Clay Powder on a daily basis and that seems to have helped! 
I know Nicola has so much experience with all this, so it has been very helpful to read her comments. 
Otis has been putting on some weight since January so our Vet is happy to avoid a biopsy as long as he looks and acts as a happy healthy dog.  So fingers crossed.  i do think it is mainly a matter of us getting used to living with a dog with this problem and not letting it take over our lives.  As my Vet rightly said, if Otis is happy and appears unaffected by his loose motions, then don't worry too much.
Thanks again everyone!!
Anette 

[SophieBlueRoanLover]

I know it sounds daft but his stools are taking over our life! –Every time someone takes him for a walk his stool get a mark out of 10!! 

We call this the ASS (Atkinson Stool Softness) scale! (Atkinson is my maiden name, and my hubby and I coined it when we were travelling in stool-softening countries!!). It is also marked out of 10.
Glad that Otis is getting a bit better. Fingers crossed that he's on the mend permanently and will register 7 or more on the ASS scale!

[lottiescat]

Hi
I hope that you can get this sorted and I would have the tests. Nicola was fantastic and sent me a huge e- mail when poor Lottie was ill full of helpful information . Sadly despite fantastic veterinary care Lottie just did not respond to treatment ,she was insured money was never the issue but her bloods became incompatible with life and eventually she lost the battle. I would have done anything to have diagnosed this earlier and perhaps the outcome would have been different.  Best wishes  Catherine,Holly and Harris. xxxix

[Honormum]

I don't have any knowledge of IBD in dogs, but I did have a cat that used to have colitic attacks and I myself have Crohn's so I know all about poo obsession, colon biopsies and prednisolone!

Not sure if it would be the same with dogs, but a 3 month course of pred put me into remission 2 years ago, and an anti-inflammatory has kept me pretty much there ever since.

Sorry, I'm sure that's no help - just trying to offer a tiny glimmer of hope for a worse-case scenario.