pups or not?

[annie10]

hi my tia is a pedigree bitch i got her from a lady who didnt want her anymore she was kept in a kitchen and only let out once a day for a pee!! ive had her for 18 months and i love her to bits...i havent got any paperwork for her but shes in tip top condition..ive got a chance of having pups from her with a pedigree springer dog hes full pedigree..its our mums dog ..she has the papers for him..first off how do i find her pedigree? or will i be wasting my time...and do you think shes ready..shes just about to come into her 2nd season..everytime the dog goes near her her tail goes straight up..also what would i do about vets..any advice would be a great help..i think she would make a fab mother as her temperment is so good..shes so soppy and loving...i just want to get it right..im not doing it for money i want to give my extended family a pup each and i would like to keep two myself..i just want to make sure that im doing things in order..

[Helen]

there is a pinned topic about breeding on the top of this board.

I would say emphatically no - your dog has no pedigree papers, you haven't even mentioned health testing so I will assume neither dog is tested,  and you want to cross breed her -  to get it right I would say get her spayed.

[annie10]

both dogs have been health tested  eyes hips,vacs.. etc..both ok..i do make sure that shes in excellent health

[lindseyp]

you'll probably get lots of answers to your question Annie ..quite an emotive topic that gets strong feelings for & against.
My personal reply to your post is .... Not to consider! 

Reasons for are .......you have cute little puppies that will hopefully all thrive, Tia will be just fine through it all, your extended family all get a cute little pup & you get to keep two from the litter

Reasons against are ..... Health implications to Tia & any pups ..serious ones too with the loss of Tia & pups  being the worst scenario. Costs....if Tia required a Caesarian section, medical care of bitch & pups before during & after being born. Thinking you have homes for them then finding people change their minds ...there is a huge excess of unwanted spaniel pups right now, with many experience breeders struggling to find suitable loving homes for their pups. Yourself keeping two pups from same litter - there are some that have had siblings who have grown up quite happily together but there are just as many who haven't & it can be very traumatic to find you have to re home either one if it doesn't work out. Also, despite all available testing & finding the right stud dog, pups can still be born with serious health conditions.
Book of the bitch is a very good book to read & gives lots of useful advice & info in ref to breeding.
I would also question why you would want to cross breed pups? There really is already so many of this kind awaiting forever homes in rescues, too full to take any more 

Sorry Annie - don't mean to come across so negative but I have 1st hand experience from both sides ...breeding & rescue 

[Helen]

Lindsey has covered a lot here - I just want to ask with your health testing you have mentioned has she been Optigen eye tested and eye tested under the BVA/KC/ISDS Eye Scheme as well? Have her hips have been x-rayed and scored and has she been DNA tested for FN?

Springers in addition to hip scoring and optigen eye testing should also have dna tests for Fucosidosis and PFK.

Also without papers you cannot trace if any of her relatives have had any hereditary problems....

[PennyB]

Can I also ask why you want to breed cross breed dogs though as they wouldn't then be pedigrees - there are plenty of cross breed pups like the ones you intend breeding who sadly may end up being dumped, bounced around owners or put to sleep as there are just far too many of them

I think personally its best to enjoy your dog - as you suggest she didn't have the best start in life

[Jane S]

Just to add to the really good advice you've already received, you've posted before about how small your bitch is - mating her to a larger breed (Springer) would be putting her seriously at risk, with a much higher likelihood of a c-section being needed to deliver pups too big for her to give birth naturally. Please think again - you obviously love your girl so I'm sure you wouldn't want to do anything which might cause her harm.

[Ninasmum]

Sorry but i agree with the other's too 
She has already had a tough start in life.  Just love/cherish her & give her the best life possible, which is what she deserve's/needs 

[annie10]

thanks for all of the advice..ive taken it all on board and have decided not to go ahead...i will get her to the vet to get her spayed!

[ebony girl]

I'm not going to tell you yes or no, you have to make your own decision but please take a minute to read my response...... Xxxxx


I bred my oldest cocker girl, ebony when she was 2 1/2 yrs old... She was a healthy dog, vaccinated, well cared for, she was fully DNA tested for PRA and FN as was the sire.

She had a text book pregnancy and was well cared for, which cost a lot of money, scans, worming etc.

She went into labour and unfortunately things didn't go to plan..... The puppies were large and she couldn't pass the first one.... Rushed to the vets, we managed to pull the first pup out and despite our best attempts we couldn't keep her alive...... I was devastated.

We then gave ebony an oxytocin injection hoping the remaining pups would follow.... But two pups were trying to come at the same time.... One of the bags burst and ebony started haemorrhaging ..... I was convinced I was going to lose the pup and most importantly my ebony.

The vet and I decided to rush her down for a Caesarian.... I carried get through and pleaded with the vet to save my girl,.... Any puppies at this stage would be a bonus!!!

We were fortunate and I left the vets with my ebony and four healthy pups but I will never forget the poor baby girl we lost

This was not the end of our story.... Ebony obviously needed help and care and I don't think I actually slept for 4 days.....we then had one pup who wouldn't latch on and I hand fed a "top-up' bottle every two hours for a week.

I barely left the house for eight weeks and not that it matters but I actually lost approx £1000 on the litter, even though they were KC reg with great pedigrees.


I can honestly say I loved having the litter but after reading my story ...... Do you still think breeding is as easy as just deciding to throw two dogs together because you happen to have the opportunity

Please think very carefully, I'm sobbing as I type this for the little girl we lost, she will always be with me xxxx

[lindseyp]

thanks for all of the advice..ive taken it all on board and have decided not to go ahead...i will get her to the vet to get her spayed!

*like* ^^^^ very much 

One of the nicest part of being a member of a forum, is when someone asks for advice/ opinion, then takes on board what is said & acts upon it  ...for all the right reasons 

[Joules]

thanks for all of the advice..ive taken it all on board and have decided not to go ahead...i will get her to the vet to get her spayed!

*like* ^^^^ very much 

One of the nicest part of being a member of a forum, is when someone asks for advice/ opinion, then takes on board what is said & acts upon it  ...for all the right reasons 

I agree with Lindsey - definitely the right decision

Breeding is something best left to the experts.  The risk to your bitch of pregnancy and whelping is just too big - especially if she is only going to produce yet more cross bred pups which are turning up in rescues in their thousands   

If you and your family want pups, please go to a reputable rescue and get a pup from there - too many are looking for homes and end up being pts because there are not enough 

Well done for making the responsible decision though 

[Mudmagnets]

From Ebony "I can honestly say I loved having the litter but after reading my story ...... Do you still think breeding is as easy as just deciding to throw two dogs together because you happen to have the opportunity"

With respect - I feel that is a bit harsh - the OP came on asking for some advice and duly took notice of that kindly given. If she was just going to do it no matter what - she would not have asked for advice in the first place, considered the advice and acted upon it.

Understadably losing a puppy/litter is going to be a bitter disappointment and emotional time for all concerned, but it must be an ackowledged  risk anyone who breeds their dog takes when deciding to go ahead.

[ebony girl]

Harsh or not, it was very honest...... If you read the original post the OP does state she has the opportunity to mate her dog with her mums dog which is a different breed.... In my honest opinion that is not a well planned thought out mating which is aiming to better a breed, which is what mating should be about!!!!

Also if you look at the times which the OP posted their answer saying they had reconsidered and my post there is only a minute or so difference, I had not seen their post before I added mine.

The OP was asking for opinions and I merely told my story. I'm truly sorry if this offended anyone or seemed harsh, but it was written from the heart with the OP and her dogs best interests at heart .

Lucy xxx

[Mudmagnets]

Harsh or not, it was very honest...... If you read the original post the OP does state she has the opportunity to mate her dog with her mums dog which is a different breed.... In my honest opinion that is not a well planned thought out mating which is aiming to better a breed, which is what mating should be about!!!!

Also if you look at the times which the OP posted their answer saying they had reconsidered and my post there is only a minute or so difference, I had not seen their post before I added mine.

The OP was asking for opinions and I merely told my story. I'm truly sorry if this offended anyone or seemed harsh, but it was written from the heart with the OP and her dogs best interests at heart .

Lucy xxx

 Ok, Points taken