Recall

[jonnytrabant]

I have a WCS, just over 5 months. I have only concentrated on recall and sit/stop to the whistle and this has been coming on a treat, by no means perfect, but for his age not bad in my opinion. But today he seems to have undone all that good work, he just wouldn't come back period, don't think he was just playing either, just sheer defiance to me. This was at his toilet stop so when I did get him, only cos my neighbours dog came to me, I ended the walk. Fast forward to an hour later we went for our usual walk on open field and low and behold, same result, no recall, this is in a place where normally his recall has been excellent.

1: Should I put it down to a phase?
2: What can I do to resolve this problem, if indeed it is a problem?
3: Should I punish the dog?

Every third or forth recall he get a small cube of cheese, I only use this on recall not for any other purpose

Any help, will be most appreciated

[maddy74]

It would seem that its an adolesence phase. Willow did this at 5 months after her recall being fab, she ran off with another cocker across a road in the distance. 

We went back to basics with her and treated her everytime she returned to us, we also used the whistle inside and when she came gave her praise and a treat. Thankfully it was just a phase. Although we did have a few other more minor incidents of the same natural for a few weeks.

In terms of punishment I did completly the wrong thing and smacked Willow on one occasion and felt awful after. 

Another thing I do is carry a squeaky toy as Willow loves these and on the occasions when Willow hasnt responded to the whistle or me calling her I squeak the toy. I also run in the opposite direction calling her name, trying to make myself more interesting that whatever it is that has distracted her.   

[Jonnydog]

Welcome to the adolescent period! I had exactly the same with Penny and had to go back to basics. Her recall just went out the window when she discovered the joys of chasing birds. I used sausage as a high value reward and kept it just for recall. Even now I give a treat every time she returns. Penny is now 18 months and very adventurous with a high chase drive (despite being a show type) but her recall is really good now. It's taken a lot of hard work to get to this stage, however, much more than any other pup I've trained.

[dianna1]

Have you looked at the recall item near the top of the behaviour and training section?

[Joules]

Please, never punish the dog for returning to you no matter how long it takes - why come back if you get punished?

Coco went through a terrible phase from about 7 months when her recall was very unreliable    I just had to persevere and go back to basics - the teenage phase can be very trying.    If recall is variable I would go back to giving a treat every time he comes back together with a big fuss - you have to make coming back to you better than anything else he finds when out 

Coco is now whistle trained and I still give her a treat every time she comes back to the whistle and some of the time when she comes back otherwise.  Recall is so important, I just do what I have to do to keep it pretty reliable 

[JohnK]

My two are pretty good at re call, but sometimes they take a while to come back for their lead, but I always make sure they get a treat when they come back and don't shout at them.

When somebody has a ball it can be quite difficult, but they always do come back..... eventually

[SophieBlueRoanLover]

I had a real scare today - I was out on a walk with Henry in the park at the end of our road, where he's always off lead and plays with other dogs and usually refuses to leave (sometimes has to be carried home). Today I took him before dinner (he now only gets 2 meals a day, so is more hungry for dinner) and said "do you want to go home for some d-i-n-n-e-r" - the tone of voice completely set him off and he scarpered. I called him and he just ran. It was really horrible - as I watched him run across the first road (where fortunately there is very little traffic ever and what there is is slow) and again a second road (also quiet). He raced home and sat at the door. I shouted at him "bad dog", but have no idea if he knew what he'd done wrong. I didn't feed him for a while as I was so angry/upset and didn't want to reward him.

As a result I need to make sure I never even signal about food before I've got him on the lead - I dread to think what could have happened and have been feeling wretched ever since it happened.

So, the moral of the story is - it's probably quite normal for dogs to be distracted and getting perfect recall is a big ask for a puppy. I wouldn't say Henry is being adolescent, just following his instincts and hunger. His recall is usually pretty good for sausage, but not so good for just kibble or if I've got nothing. In training classes it's perfect, but the environment is totally different inside a church hall!

I'd keep on with the training with high value treats. Our trainer's assistant says she still carries treats for her dogs even now they're older, so that they've got some reason to come. Otherwise why would they bother?!

[Cassie01]

I had a real scare today - I was out on a walk with Henry in the park at the end of our road, where he's always off lead and plays with other dogs and usually refuses to leave (sometimes has to be carried home). Today I took him before dinner (he now only gets 2 meals a day, so is more hungry for dinner) and said "do you want to go home for some d-i-n-n-e-r" - the tone of voice completely set him off and he scarpered. I called him and he just ran. It was really horrible - as I watched him run across the first road (where fortunately there is very little traffic ever and what there is is slow) and again a second road (also quiet). He raced home and sat at the door. I shouted at him "bad dog", but have no idea if he knew what he'd done wrong. I didn't feed him for a while as I was so angry/upset and didn't want to reward him.

As a result I need to make sure I never even signal about food before I've got him on the lead - I dread to think what could have happened and have been feeling wretched ever since it happened.

So, the moral of the story is - it's probably quite normal for dogs to be distracted and getting perfect recall is a big ask for a puppy. I wouldn't say Henry is being adolescent, just following his instincts and hunger. His recall is usually pretty good for sausage, but not so good for just kibble or if I've got nothing. In training classes it's perfect, but the environment is totally different inside a church hall!

I'd keep on with the training with high value treats. Our trainer's assistant says she still carries treats for her dogs even now they're older, so that they've got some reason to come. Otherwise why would they bother?!

How scary for you, Sophie - so glad he made it home safely!

I have a WCS, just over 5 months. I have only concentrated on recall and sit/stop to the whistle and this has been coming on a treat, by no means perfect ...

Every third or forth recall he get a small cube of cheese, I only use this on recall not for any other purpose

Any help, will be most appreciated

A minor contribution, jonny, but just as a thought, I do remember reading somewhere that after the 'a-treat-for-every-action' stage passes you should try to use or introduce a random treat giving system to reward desired behaviours. In that way the dog cannot second guess when it will or will not get the treat for the action performed. If you've established a pattern i.e. every 3rd or 4th time, maybe your pup has spotted this too?

Good luck with it though, it's not easy! 

[JulieM]

Just adding to the above, I also call Florie to me during the walk and give her a treat but don't then put her on the lead, so that she knows that recall doesn't always mean the end of off lead fun- it might make recall seem less of a negative?

Good luck- the teenage phase can be trying when they suddenly stop doing things they did really well before- but it does come back