CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: Vic on November 23, 2004, 11:34:18 AM
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I'm looking for a puppy, and wanted a black, black and tan or chocolate bitch. I've been told by a couple of breeders that solid colour cockers don't have as gentle a temperament as parti-colours, and are harder to train. I have 3 young children so temperament is more important to me than anything. (though I realise how important training is regardless of temperament).
But are these breeders right? Please enlighten me as I'm now anxious to get my puppy. I live in Scotland by the way. Thanks.
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Hiya i dont know much about the different colours having different temperments etc..but i have a 9mth solid black cocker boy and he is an absolute dream! superb temperment etc , ive had my friends children around him and he is an angel... :D my boss at work has a black cocker and hes the complete opposite, bites and can turn bit nasty.. ive read about cocker rage affecting some colours etc, but i saw my cockers parents and how they are,and what enviroment they are raised in thats what made my decsicon to get ronnie, i wouldnt avoid a certian colour?
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I've heard that too but don't know in reality how true it is.
I've had a solid black bitch and a solid golden bitch. The golden girl (who I still have) has the best temperament in the world (except with other dogs :lol: ) She's fab with people especially children. She's almost perfectly behaved to the point where I swear she speaks fluent English - you couldn't hope for a more wonderful dog.
My black Sasha on the other hand had severe temperament problems. (Although I loved her more than anything in the world). She had epilepsy and spinal problems which didn't help, but she also suffered from rage syndrome. And I know of three other solid blacks who had the same. Sasha was very very sadly PTS (due to health not rage) in my arms 5 years ago and I still have the scars from where she had bitten me in the past. She was very affectionate, very loving and totally devoted to me for most of the time. But then she would go all growly and hunched up and a couple of seconds later she would launch an attack on whoever was nearest (usually me). It wasn't half-hearted either :( ! I had tetanus jabs and stitches several times. Afterwards she would be very disorientated for a while as if she didn't know where she was or what she'd done.
I think you need to be very careful where your new puppy comes from and that you discuss this issue with any breeders you approach. I am not saying that you shouldn't get a solid black bitch (they are my favourites after all :) ) But you do need to be careful.
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Finding a reputable breeder is more important to temperment then colour. A reputable breeder will breed good dogs regardless of colour.
I heard the same stories when I was looking for Alfie. Previous the only "negative" I had heard was that they do become very possesive. I had a solid black before and he was a big softy and a wimp if the truth be known. However he would go for anyone if he thought I was being attacked in anyway. If me and hubby were messing about he would often growl at him and "mouth" his hand away from me (he never bit anyone ever)Nor would he allow another dog into the house and got very upset if I stopped to fuss another dog. We never knew Gunnars background as he was puppy farmed but we were lucky for him to have turned out as well as he did
Alfie (blue roan) is completely different. I think hubby could stab me and he'd look on :) Hes not at all fazed at other dogs coming into the home and so far really doesnt seem to be possesive over anything. I met Alfies parents and Aunties and Uncles and it was clear even to a novice that they had wonderful temprements and had been bred from good lines.
I never set out to get a roan, colour had nothing to do with it. For me the most important factor was finding a reputable breeder, who really cared about breeding lines and knew what they were doing.
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Hi,
I have two black{one boy and one girl}and one gold cocker. and they are lovely never been nasty.
A relative had a blue roan first and he was nasty to people so she got an gold and she was the same. we though it was her but she has two blue roan now and thay are off a fantastic temperament.
i think some dog have a nasty side and some don't just like people.
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Hi Vic! Welcome to COL :D . I'm in Scotland too, and when we were researching our first cocker pup last year (we wanted a golden girl) we were told the same thing (by some very informed people <_< ). As our girls were 6 and 3 at the time I wasn't going to take any risks and we went for a particolour instead. I wish I had discovered COL beforehand which would have made me better informed :rolleyes: . However, we now have Molly, a very 'spirited' orange roan who is very loving, and Brodie, a laid-back happy little chocolate roan boy. I too, think that the personality is affected by the breeding and not by the colour.
One day we will have our golden girl, but I have to convince my hubby first :lol: .
Good luck in your search.
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At the end of august we bought home our black cocker, who is very funny, lovely temperment and very clever when it comes to picking up commands, and not at all aggressive.
I too like the others think it is mainly in the breeding, although i'm sure there must be some truth in the solid/rage thing. I know good breeders would not breed from an aggressive dog, so it shouldn't become a problem... ;)
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Temperament has been more of a problem in solid colours for about 25 years - its not a new thing.
I purposely did not, and would not get a solid colour cocker - and as for the solid chocolate (really thats just brown isn't it ! :D ) well the gene pool must be very small to produce this colour. All "new" colours are produced by very close breeding.
I've known two goldens, both very stroppy with other dogs.
My three girls, all various particolours - have always been great with people, and with other dogs.
I don't think its a good idea to choose a pup for its colour - I agree you have to be happy with the breeders, the pedigrees and the environment and way its raised.
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I have 3 young children and 2 golden cocker spaniels and I couldn't ask for dogs with better temperaments. Providing you use a reputable breeder, the colour should make little difference to the temperament.
Rage syndrome is more common in solid colour cocker spaniels (although not a common problem...most cocker spaniels do not have rage)...but again, using a reputable breeder is the best way to avoid this.
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and as for the solid chocolate (really thats just brown isn't it ! :D ) well the gene pool must be very small to produce this colour. All "new" colours are produced by very close breeding.
Solid liver is probably the oldest Cocker colour & is certainly not new - many of the early Cockers/Fields (before the breeds were split) were this colour & it's still not uncommon in Working Cocker lines. It is now a rare colour in show lines & reputable show breeders will not have liver puppies very often. However commercial breeders are now deliberately breeding for this colour because "chocolate" puppies are currently much in demand by the general public (like chocolate Labs are). Breeding for colour can be dangerous but sadly if there is a demand, there is always someone willing to meet that demand.
Jane
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Solid liver is probably the oldest Cocker colour & is certainly not new - many of the early Cockers/Fields (before the breeds were split) were this colour & it's still not uncommon in Working Cocker lines. It is now a rare colour in show lines & reputable show breeders will not have liver puppies very often. However commercial breeders are now deliberately breeding for this colour because "chocolate" puppies are currently much in demand by the general public (like chocolate Labs are). Breeding for colour can be dangerous but sadly if there is a demand, there is always someone willing to meet that demand.
Yes of course I know its a common colour with working cockers (having a working cocker myself !)- I meant show lines - thats what I thought this thread referred to - not colours or temperaments of working cockers.
Good breeding should be to improve the health and temperament - not for colour.
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Hi Vic - it's two solid colour working cockers I have. Vahri is black and Rufus is chocolate.
They are both very different natured but both very good natured. Vahri is quite shy and likes to weigh up any situation before venturing forth. Ruffy is the complete opposite - the more the merrier for him.
Theres lots of good advice here - I'm sure you'll get the answers you need.
There are good and bad in all breeds, colours and crosses - no hard and fast rule.
Vet your breeder well and choose your puppy wisely.
I'm in Scotland too - West Dumbartonshire.
Janice :)
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Yes of course I know its a common colour with working cockers (having a working cocker myself !)- I meant show lines - thats what I thought this thread referred to - not colours or temperaments of working cockers.
The original poster did not specify which type of Cocker he was looking for & you yourself used the term "new" in relation to the colour chocolate, hence my reply. Please remember there are others reading this thread who are not as knowledgable about Cockers as you - my reply was a clarification not meant to be taken as a person insult ;)
Jane
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id like to add if a breeder tells you a certain colour cocker is a no because they have bad tempeaments id choose another breeder ;) They should know all about cockers by the time they start to breed
I heard every story in the book about temperment and colour when we were looking for a pup - everyone had an opinion, but none seemed to be based on any type of scientific fact!
Molo's breeder, who is very experienced, is very 'pro' blue-roan over every other colour purely because this was her preference, and was quite opinionated about other colours - especially when she was discussing her show-ring experiences!
We accepted this, as we recognised it for what it was; but it can be quite confusing at times :rolleyes:
Am I right in my understanding that brown is a recessive colour over black and solid is recessive to roan; so solid chocolate dogs are one of the most difficult to 'breed' - or do I need to do more research?
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x
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Thank you so much to everyone who took the trouble to reply to my query. Now I just have to find a reputable breeder and wait... PS What a helpful site.
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Also a pup's temperament is only as good as how well you socialize and train them—a poorly socialised dog with the best of breeding is still a poorly socialized dog and may not therefore have a good temperament.
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I realise this, and will be socialising the puppy and taking her to training classes. My former neighbour had a German Shepherd that wasn't trained, at all, and I felt so sorry for that dog They'd shout Come! then whack her when she ignored them. And they left her tied up most of the day. Awful.
Anyway, my husband and I are really looking forward to having another member of the family. It's just a matter of finding her now.
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Do liver cockers have to be bred with livers to make livers ?
No, you can get liver from a liver + red mating, we have had a few of them here in Norway.
Other combinations that have given liver is:
black+blue roan
black + orange roan
red + black
red + blue roan
As you see it is not unusually to mix solid and parti in Norway ;)
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:D