CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 03, 2002, 05:24:35 PM
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Hi
My 15 month old boy is extremely boisterous but also a bit of an escapologist. We have had to check all the garden thoroughly, if he could find the smallest gap he would be out and off down the road at every opportunity (looking for ladies i presume!! ;)).
I have been told that if I have him castrated this will calm him down and stop him wanting to roam. Is this true? Has anyone else had the same problem? If i do have him 'done' :-[ what other difference could it make to him?
Any advice much appreciated.
Nicky
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Sorry. Just realised i put my questions under the wrong heading!!! Its nothing to do with grooming ::)
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Not a problem Nicky - I've moved you to Behaviour :) As to whether castration will curb your boy's escapologist tendencies, it may do but don't bank on it. We had a bitch once who was always trying to go walkabout, digging under fences & the like & in her case, it was for the sheer fun of it - she certainly wasn't after any boys ;D One suggestion would be to try "chemical castration" ie a hormone injection which mimics the effects of neutering & would tell you whether the operation is likely to have the effect you want. This injection generally lasts for around 3 weeks - long enough to see if your boy does calm down & stop his wandering ways. Ask your vet about this - the hormone injection used is called "Tardak"
If you opt for neutering, then possible side effects are a thicker, woollier coat & a tendency to put on weight (though this can be countered by feeding a low calorie diet)
Jane
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I had my boy "tardak'd" on Tuesday - not for wandering - he doesn't do that - but to try and curb his excessive jealousy against my younger boy. The beauty is that you can see if it will solve your problem before embarking on the road of no return that may not solve your problem anyway.
I'll let you all know how Jasper goes on over the coming few weeks. You might like to see how it goes for us Nicky.
Pam n the boys
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Can I just ask out of interest if there is a female equivalent to Tardak?
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thanks Pam. I would like to know how Jasper gets on, it may help with my decision. I wouldnt want to put him through an operation if it isnt going to make any difference, I dont think he'd thank me for it!! >:(
Nicky (& Charlie)
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Michelle - I believe their is a femal equivalent - but bitch owners arenot keen on it. I'm sure jane will know more and enlighten you.
Pam n the boys
PS day three and no difference yet!!
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Thanks Pam, this afternoon I booked Georgia in to be spayed later this month as she'll be mid season by then. That will only leave one entire bitch in the house (Neneh), so hopefully Otis 8) won't get too upset when she comes in.
I was just curious as Tardak gives a good indicator for owners of male dogs, and wondered about owners with problematic bitches. I hope this makes sense, I can't think or type straight this afternoon.
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There are hormone injections for bitches but they're not really like the Tardak injections & I've not heard of them being used in the way Tardak is used ie to test whether neutering would cure certain behavioural problems. With bitches, hormone injections can be used to delay a bitch coming into season or to stop a season once its begun. We have done this a couple of times (once when we were moving house & didn't want one of our bitches in season when she had to go into kennels) but it's not something I would want to do regularly as there is evidence that these injections can affect fertility & can also increase the risk of a bitch developing pyometra, but they can be useful now & again :)
Jane
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Thanks Jane, I know of the hormone injection to delay a season. I was just curious to know if there was anything to help owners with grumpy bitches (that sounds awful). Perhaps bitches are just more level headed than dogs (yeah right) ;D
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Hey, it's a girl's right to be grumpy ;D Seriously, if you mean bitches that are grumpy before/during/after a season, no I haven't come across anything to cure that yet, though there is a drug available for phantoms now called Galastop which is meant to reduce symptoms like depression & grumpiness - haven't had to try that yet so don't know how effective it is
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I was thinking more on the lines of behavioural problems. But then little girlies should know better really ;)
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There isn't a female equivalent to Tardak - the delvosterone injection only puts off a season. Maybe the boffins will get onto it soon ??? Like Jane says, it shouldn't be used constantly as it will mess up the bitches reproductive system but I do know a few people who do use it all the time. So michele, are you going to have another bitch going out with her full winter wardrobe in a few months ;D
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So michele, are you going to have another bitch going out with her full winter wardrobe in a few months ;D
Hi Gill,
Georgia has been clipped anyway for quite some time now, so it won't make any difference to grooming her. I just feel its fairer on Otis 8) as Georgia always comes in season a few days after Neneh, and imagine the poor boy with 2 Flirty Gertie's to contend with ;D
She also has very occasionally (about once a year at the moment) had an epileptic fit and as fluid levels rise when a season approaches, it can increase the chances of her having further fits. By the way she won't be having a Pre Med for that reason :)
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I had my boy "tardak'd" on Tuesday - not for wandering - he doesn't do that - but to try and curb his excessive jealousy against my younger boy. The beauty is that you can see if it will solve your problem before embarking on the road of no return that may not solve your problem anyway.
I'll let you all know how Jasper goes on over the coming few weeks. You might like to see how it goes for us Nicky.
Pam n the boys
I'd be interested to know how it went Pam as I am thinking about this for Cooper. Does it really give you a clear indication? I don't want to put him through the op if it is not going to benifit him in any way.
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Angela
The Tardak made no impression on Jasper at all. The vet is very sure that it does replicate how a dog would be after castration. Short of actually doing that to Jasper now to try and prove a point - I can't comment further. For me it shows that Jasper's problems lie elswhere and that surgery to reduce his hormones isn't going to help.
I am glad we did it as I don't want to put either of them through surgery unless it is necessary.
hth
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Thanks for that Pam, it is most helpful as I too want to find out if Coopers problems are elsewhere before I try something quite that drastic. I think I may explore a few avenues and then ring the vet and see what they say it will cost.
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I can't believe Cooper has any problems - he's way too cute for that ;) :-*
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Well Cooper says thankyou for that Gill, but Mummy know different. ;D
We are having a problem with him when visitors come to the door. Obviously we get the usual thing of him rushing to the door & barking like mad if he does manage to get there - normally we try and shut him in the kitchen.
The trouble was really bought to mind yesturday when the fish man came (who comes every week). Cooper was in the garden, so he got to meet him first and when Roddie tried to get him to come in, Cooper started barking & growling and sounding really nasty >:(. I still think this maybe down to him being confused about his 'place' but am not 100% certain and really don't know what else to do to re-enforce this. He waits for his dinner, goes through doors and upstairs behind us, & is not allowed up on the furniture unless we say so.
Any suggestions would be greatly accepted
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Vegas does the exact same thing which I'm puttting down to him still being a baby :) There isn't a night goes by that I'm not poring over some canine behavioural book trying to find the solution. Like you, I am enforcing the fact that Mummy is Pack Leader and go through doors first, make him wait for food, let him on the furniture when I say so etc. My main problem comes at bedtime. He doesn't get to come up until I'm in bed and Brook has had his nightly biccy and then he gets invited up onto the bed. However, while getting ready for bed he jumps up and when I tell him to get down he starts jumping about and barking at me. Once I eventually grab hold of him(hes a slippery little monkey) and put him on the floor he's fine again. I have been laughed at for making such a "big deal" out of it but if you were to see him do it, he really does look like he's laying down a challenge to me ie "you'll have to catch me first". I want to nip this in the bud incase it gets worse as he gets older. My mantra is MUMMY ALWAYS WINS ;D
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However, while getting ready for bed he jumps up and when I tell him to get down he starts jumping about and barking at me. Once I eventually grab hold of him(hes a slippery little monkey) and put him on the floor he's fine again. I have been laughed at for making such a "big deal" out of it but if you were to see him do it, he really does look like he's laying down a challenge to me ie "you'll have to catch me first".
Yep Cooper is exactly the same, trying to catch them is a nightmare. Yesturday when Doddie 'fish' came and this morning when someone came to the door I had to physically lift him and put him in his crate. I'll have to keep trying that and see if it works.
Not much good when hes already outside though. Does Vegas snarl & growl at you when you try to get him off the bed?
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It has been known for him to give a growl though he doesn't snarl. He hasn't ever bared his teeth and I don't think his growl is in the same context as when Brook growls ie I'm going to bite your head off :o but nevertheless it is a growl and I'm not standing for it. I think he's just trying his luck and if I persevere hopefully he will realise that it is not going to achieve anything ie he will still end up on the floor, voluntarily or not ;) The biggest problem with Brook is he got away with it so it is learned behaviour but he is also very capable of biting(I bear the scars :'() which makes the situation different to Vegas. I may actually start putting him in the crate at nightime until I am ready for his presence and see if that helps.