Tilley training: a very accidental experience of harsh training methods

[woollypigs]

Well we got a bit of a shock all three of us on our second day at doggy school.

Out of the blue the trainer shook a plastic bottle of chickpeas right next to Tilley and me with a loud bang. I was shocked - we should have walked out the door right there but we were speechless - and Tilley took nearly two days to get over it - we took home a different dog that evening. She even peed while panicky shaking, tail between the legs, ears right back "hugging" the floor at the end of the lead and as far away from the trainer she could get.

Read all about on this link - http://woofy.woollypigs.com/2013/10/dog-training-classes/

We have now booked a one to one training session with someone else who are using positive reinforcement. We hope that this trainer can help us solve the going mental when meeting other dogs and people when out on lead.

[JennyBee]

What an awful experience and what a horrible excuse for a trainer . There is never any reason to use aversives, whatever the problem. I can't believe they would do that to a dog, have it react in the way poor Tilley did, and still think they were doing the right thing.

I would complain.

I hope your girl recovers soon, it may take a while but with time and patience she will . Hopefully your new trainer will help. She must have got such a fright. Don't feel bad about not leaving, I have an article somewhere about that very thing - it's apparently hard physiologically to walk out when something like that happens. Tried to find that article before and couldn't, but will try again.

[Archie bean]

Poor you and poor Tilley. This is almost exactly what happened to me when I called a behaviourist in for a one to one session with Archie. I thought I had asked all the right questions on the phone regarding her methods but within 30 seconds of her walking through my front door she whipped out a can of pet corrector spray (it emits a loud hissing noise) and sprayed it right behind Archie's head. I didn't even see it and it made me jump a mile. Archie was of course very subdued and confused until she left (never to return) Once she had gone I had a nightmare time with a wound up, aggressive, guarding everything he could find puppy. These kind of methods may not cause a problem for many confident, happy dogs but I don't think these people have any clue what longer term effects their "quick fix" methods can have on a nervous and reactive dog.
I am sure your new trainer will help. It sounds like one to one lessons may be the way to go with Tilley and that a class environment was just too much for her. I'm sure she will get there.  Good luck.

[elaine.e]

Poor Tilley, and what a dreadful experience for both of you

I've just read your link and from that followed the link to the training club and from there to the ADTB website, which says positive training methods only. I also noted that the training club does the Kennel Club Good Citizenship Dog Scheme.

Have you considered contacting the ADTB and the KC to report the incident to them? I very much doubt it was a one off as the trainer had his/her rattle bottle to hand. Right now I feel very angry on your behalf. What the trainer did was just so wrong. It doesn't matter how over excited Tilley was being, it was ignorant, irresponsible and damaging for that trainer to treat her so badly.

Modified to add - the ADTB website, which lists your trainer, states the following -

"Our Instructors are aware that only kind, motivational methods of training dogs will be tolerated by the ADTB and that any trainer approved by the ADTB would be instantly dismissed from the organisation should any report of harsh handling or cruelty be proven. ADTB Instructors should not bring the good name of the ADTB into disrepute."

I really think you should complain direct to the ADTB.

[woollypigs]

I think that we both were so shocked that we couldn't think straight and had so many things running around in our heads, to come up with the idea of just walking out.

We know that Tilley is a handful and needs some work regarding meeting others. I'm not really sure what I would have said if they had come up and explained the training they had in mind. The failure to explain to me (I was holding the lead) and my partner before they did it, has me rather angry. But seeing her the next day, we will not be using that training method again. It is clearly not the way to train Tilley and an experienced trainer should have seen this the first time at doggy school and should have told us their methods and all options.

We will write to them, ADTB and the KC about how we feel about the training.

[Walshies]

A harrowing experience - hope all is ok soon.

We tried a training class - once.  It was absolute chaos and very poorly managed.  Hopefully we have done a better job ourselves!!

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

I agree, I'd complain. If they'd done that to Charlie he'd have probably had a heart attack, he can be quite nervous at the best of times.

[Sarah.H]

I would recommend the book Controlled Unleashed although it is meant for dogs competing in agility it is aimed for hyper reactive dogs.

I found zylkene helps Millie control her anxiety levels,she certainly calms down quicker after something sets her off.

[Helen]

I've never heard of the ADTB until now - it seems to me that the set of initials has been chosen specifically to confuse them with the Association of Pet Dog Trainers APDT (which IS a recognised association)

I would complain, never go back and find yourself an APDT accredited trainer 

[JennyBee]

According to the ADTB website they take this sort of thing very seriously, so definitely worth reporting, there's an email address here -

http://www.dogtraining-online.co.uk/principles.html

It does say they require proof.

[elaine.e]

I've never heard of the ADTB until now - it seems to me that the set of initials has been chosen specifically to confuse them with the Association of Pet Dog Trainers APDT (which IS a recognised association)

I would complain, never go back and find yourself an APDT accredited trainer 

There are some good ADTB trainers around. The club I go to has a husband and wife team. She's APDT and he's ADTB as is the lady who has just left them to set up on her own. All three are good trainers

[Karma]

If the organisation requires proof, is it worth emailing the training school before complaining - just to ask for advice on how to use these "techniques" so you have it in writing??

[twiceover2]

This is the same class we took Barney to as a puppy.  I am happy to also write to the ADTB to complain.  I regret now not doing it before.  We had no idea about dog training when we got Barney and unfortunately persevered with this class for several months.  The plastic bottle was used numerous times in classes and we were told to have several around the house so we could use them whenever we needed to.  They also advocated the use of spray collars and loaned them out to people whose dogs they deemed needed them.  They showed us how to alpha roll dogs and getting them to walk to heel involved changing direction violently and repeatedly, yanking the dog round with you.

Fortunately, we didn't use any of these methods with Barney as they felt mean and cruel (which they are) but I was constantly told off in class for being too soft on my dominant dog and that he would turn out unruly and aggressive.  He is a little "stubborn" but a softer dog you couldn't hope to meet.

Eventually, we left the class.  Unfortunately, we then enrolled with a different school when Pippa came along and found out too late that the trainer was connected to this training school.  On Pippa's first evening, the trainer physically and aggressively shouted at and hauled an 8 month Alsatian puppy about and was eventually bitten by the dog drawing blood    I wanted to bite him too.  We didn't go back to that class again.

We now have a fantastic trainer.  She is starting a new run of classes this weekend, woollypigs.  If you want her details let me know.  Her methods are fantastic, fun and completely positive.

[Amus1]

Yes I go to the same trainer as twiceover2, and do agility. I can vouch for her too. Impressed with her methods. I travel about half hour to get there. She does some classes, but she does one to ones too. I'm hoping to start some one to ones shortly - going to be working on confidence levels regarding contact equipment! Lol.

Am now feeling rather glad that the lady at the club didn't call me back after I'd left a message, when we got our little tinker at 8weeks otherwise we too may have had the same experience.

Hope Tilley is soon feeling more like herself!

[woollypigs]

Thanks all !

We had a fantastic one to one today with http://www.taylor-made-training.com and it confirmed that we are doing the right things. We got some tips and tricks today that we will work on to get Tilley to calm down when there is something new.

A email of complaint is being drafted for sure.

twiceover2 and Amus1 I think we will soon meet each other