Long lining - a fiasco

[rubyduby]

Because my two year old Cocker has a high prey drive , and because she is prone to diappearing on scents, oblivious to us, I decided with spring looming I need to keep her under more control as I dont want her getting over excited and going somewhere she could get hurt or even shot. I have longline which I have tried to use, but she just gets to the end of it and pulls like a train, sadly she has had most of her life off lead, and this new approach is making her miserable and leaving me raging and in tears. I hate her being restricted, and I hate being dragged everywhere, I could try dropping the line, but she'll just zoom off...Doesnt help that I cant walk fast as I walk my older dog with her (11 yrs) and she doesnt really want to rush about like Amber does. I really am at my wits end, of course she has had no training whatsoever, as my OH thought it was above him to listen to me....now he doesnt even come with us or ever take them out...I am left with the problem, but tahts tough after all I wanted the dogs....

[Shaun W]

Have you tried having a look at Absolute Dogs? They talk about Proximity Games that are designed to make your dog want to be near you and stop them running off.
I did some in the early days with Alfie and he is rarely out of my sight/ or me his, his favourite is randomly giving him treats (actually his food) when we are on the walk, it means he keeps coming back just on the off chance he gets something.

[rubyduby]

Yes I have tried games, they are fine for a while but if she picks up on a scent she forgets games, and even treats, she isnt food orientated and when a good scent comes up the food is forgotten

[Pearly]

Forget walking her for the next few weeks.  Go right back to basics.  You need to instill sit, recall and stop.  Keep her in your garden and practice until she has it nailed. 

Gundog training will help with all above.  Do you have a local trainer?  Failing that there are some great online resources now:  Ladies Working Gundog Group, Cunningshot Gundog Training (Emma is a personal friend who I would recommend) Laochlan Gundogs on Patreon and Beggarbush Gundog training who now have an online application for training.

Sunday I took Coral to a field for a training session.  There was a pheasant in the hedge at the nearest corner, she hunted in the grass, had a number of retrieves in the vicinity of the bird - not once did she lose focus or free hunt.  This is the same dog that spent 13 months on a long line from 9 months old.

Jayne

[caro]

I feel your pain.

My dog Sam was fairly good off lead until he got to about 9 months and he became very scent driven, so I started to keep him on lead, for months. then about 5 weeks ago started to let him off when walking with a friend and her dogs, all was well until I went down the track near our house and he went off after deer. He was gone. I had to phone my husband for help and he was found half an hour later but still wouldn’t come so had to be grabbed. So now he’s on lead again and he’s not easy to walk on lead. He can walk loosely when he is not tempted by anything but lunges and tugs a lot, and it’s a real battle. I have tried everything. He is a year old now. I feel it is 2 steps forward and 10 back, constantly. I am doing recall in the garden - we are next to a field and I can call him back from being next to the fence with a pheasant the other side but my confidence is shot when it comes to letting him off lead.

We saw a gun dog trainer in early January to help with walking to heel for a start, but I didn’t like the technique used.

I am with you too with the OH issue. I wanted him so it’s my problem 😥

[rubyduby]

Unofrtunately I dont have a garden suitable for training anything, I did consider a training school, but when one appeared that was handy and sounded good, they wot take dogs that arent vaccinated , and I wont put my dogs thro that every year, never have in 40 yrs(touch wood) without issue. So another way we are being pushed into vaccinations, anyway back to square one, she will have to get used to the extension lead and road walks .....totally stumped. looked at online training but OH goes off on one when he hears the cost (some are ridiculous) okay to have a nice car on the drive, but spend money on something to benefit me or the dogs....thoroughly miserable and depressed, hate walking the dogs and sadly thats all I have .....

[caro]

I have been using a flexi lead as a compromise, some days are better than others.  We went down the track today and he was crazy with all the smells, and wouldn't take any notice of me.  The only time he did was when I pretended to collapse (I was getting desperate).  Even then he wasn't even that bothered.  I walked home in tears. I really do know where you are coming from. x

[ips]

I am no expert, far from it but I do work my dog (a lot) so I like to think that I have something to offer. My two peneth......there is no such thing as "free running" a spaniel especially a worker, they are hard wired to hunt therefore when off lead imo you need to engage with the dog by way of dropping balls, (dummy, gloves anything you want) to retrieve, and even actively hunting the dog, if dog is going to hunt regardless then it may as well be doing so under command. Train a return to handler (break away) after any contact with game or bunnies or anything at all, eventually you could train a sit to contact but I believe a break and return is easier for the dog as it keeps them flowing, instead of having to stop on contact it gets to carry on doing what it's doing but the opposite direction, it's relatively easy to train a break from flush / contact as long as there is a reward. Even a stop is not that difficult to achieve if you put the work in again as long as there is reward and engagement, I sometimes reward a stop with a ball just to tighten her up however most of the time the reward for stopping is merely a release command to continue what she was doing.....as I say I am no expert but the above is how I trained the chase out of my highly driven worker.

[ips]

This is how initially trained a break from flush/contact, four years ago so she would have been two ish. The reward for the sit to flush is a hunt for ball in opposite direction, I believe this or similar would work for contact rather than active flush, obviously you need to generalize the behaviour by moving on to actual birds, rabbit, deer or whatever.......just to give you an idea of what I am talking about, it worked for me but as I say I am no expert I just muddle along....

https://vimeo.com/182966806

[ips]

Just to prove how it develops in the real world....this was a few months after the training vid, this was part walk part training excersize it was not a shoot day, there is no stop whistle or command the reward was release command to continue hunting.....or free running.....call it what you want 😉

https://vimeo.com/189977130

[caro]

This is how initially trained a break from flush/contact, four years ago so she would have been two ish. The reward for the sit to flush is a hunt for ball in opposite direction, I believe this or similar would work for contact rather than active flush, obviously you need to generalize the behaviour by moving on to actual birds, rabbit, deer or whatever.......just to give you an idea of what I am talking about, it worked for me but as I say I am no expert I just muddle along....

https://vimeo.com/182966806

She is so focused - my boy is all over the place. I think I need to start from scratch in the garden.  Where I live there are pheasants all around, so I can't walk anywhere without temptation. I like him to 'sniff' but his sniffs always turn into hunting and then pulling me all over the place.  I haven't been able to use treats other than kibble as he's currently on an exclusion diet which has really set us back.

[ips]

Is he ball obsessed, or anything else that you could use as reward other than food treats

[caro]

Is he ball obsessed, or anything else that you could use as reward other than food treats

He likes playing with a squeeky ball in the garden and the house but as soon as we are out of the gate and into the outside world he drops it and is completely disinterested in it.  I spoke to the vet today about his tummy troubles and she said just another two weeks then gradually introduce one thing i.e. beef or chicken for training but I have been naughty and have been giving him odd bits to call him in from birds the other side of our fence (it is a stock fence so he can see all the birds in the field), as an attempt to try and keep up some recall training.  He is happy to have his food for rewards for basic things like sit and stay etc but I don't want to weaken my recall cue with kibble - if you know what I mean!

[ips]

The trouble is that once they find the fun of the flush or the chase it's difficult to get any engagement back, nothing trumps birds and game.

[caro]

The trouble is that once they find the fun of the flush or the chase it's difficult to get any engagement back, nothing trumps birds and game.

I don’t recall that he’s ever flushed anything, he chased deer once, and has been on a lead since then, although last Saturday we went up on Salisbury Plain I let him off with two other dogs.  He had a good run around and did keep coming back. My trouble with our regular walks at home is the constant nose down bum wiggling tracking.

He was a bit better today, I kept him on the flexi but took my whistle and some beef and did quick pips and ran backwards and gave him some beef, that worked quite well, and I ran with him a few times.  We did some waits and a lot of stops and sits. His engagement seemed better.  So perhaps if I continue in this direction? 

Sorry for hijacking your post rubyduby I think we are experiencing very similar issues though so hopefully you don’t mind xx