Author Topic: Bailey and his terrible recall - again  (Read 5393 times)

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Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2006, 07:35:05 PM »
Hun! I know this is getting you down a bit, but, honestly you'll get there ;)

 I wont repeat all the stuff we went through on the phone, but Lees dad knows his stuff he has trained and watched the training of a zillion gun dogs in his life, and he says it is just a matter of patience and the fact that Bailey is still sooooooo young!!! I'll defo try and get him round when you visit babe.

And if all else fails I'm going with my idea of a taxidermed bird for you to call him in waving!!!!! You wont look silly honest!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :o

Thanks darlin, I am looking forward to my visit so that you can see how bad Bailey really is!! I can wait as long as Bailey needs because i love him!  i just want to make his walks as energentic as possible so he gets enough exercise!
  Mich, Bailey and Poppy xxxxx

Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2006, 07:36:52 PM »
Quote from: Mich link=topic=15347.msg188243#msg188243

All of the places I walk him are huge, proper green belt country side and so not close to the roads, but I am worried that if I let him off I wont get him back when I need to go home!!

Sounds really daft, but after he has been indulging his bird passion for a while, try lying on the ground and making a distressed noise...... ;)

It might just work..... :-\

If i let him indulge in his bird passion he is normally too far away for me to see him or for him to see me! I will try it but i don't think he will hear me!! ::)
  Mich, Bailey and Poppy xxxxx

Offline Cob-Web

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2006, 07:51:49 PM »
I really do feel for you; Molo mastered the art of the disappearing act when he was younger - as Caroline will attest to (on more than one occasion  >:()

I know you said he made his way onto a road from the park - what does he do if you let him off in the fields (and perhaps got there by car?) Molo had two tricks - either he'd be sat by the car waiting - or he eventually returned to the point that he last saw me (on the SE meet he came back with a boxer dog that he'd found from somewhere  ::)).

I tapped into this tendancy and began to take him to the forest and to hide from him behind trees - this seemed to encourage him to come back more often and check where I was  :-\ I am sure he will grow out of it to some degree, hes still a baby really - but its a bit of a nightmare while it lasts  >:(
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Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2006, 08:05:09 PM »
The time he ran out into the road was when I was walking him in the local park, i only go there in the mornings before work and during lunchtime so it doesn't bother me if he doesn't get to go off the lead then!This is the only time I feel he has actually ran away from me and that was because I was chasing him!  He thought it was a game and I thought I needed to get back to work!!

Bailey doesn't ever completely disappear :laugh:!!  He always stays reasonably close, I just can't always see him!  If I walk in the other direction he will follow whilst checking out the birds!! The main problem with him being off is that I can't get close enough to him to put the lead back on him when I want ot go home! For example if I hide, he will only get close enough to me so i can see him and he can see me, he wont run right up to me so i can touch him! ::)
  Mich, Bailey and Poppy xxxxx

Offline Wendy G

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2006, 08:21:52 PM »
We had a recall problem with Spud,when we got him he was 4 years old and hadn't been off the lead for about 3 of those so when we did let him off he just ran and ran.We tried lots of things but in the end sent him away for a fornights training.The trainer had him on a long lead and kept shouting"this way" as she turned in different directions and he had to follow, eventually she could let go of the lead and let it trail as so he did not realise he was loose.
When we got him home we kept this up for about 5 weeks until we let him off.He was improved but still not that good.Where we walk is a county park with lots of acres and wooded areas, my OH took him there for the day and let him off,whistled him back praised him and sent him off again so he got the idea that he wasn't going to be put on the lead evertime he returned.He still has not got
100% recall but we are not frightened of loosing him now.He is also very much bird orientated and gets his "own head on" as my Oh calls it.
Hope you get some improvement.
Good Luck
Wendy, Bailey & Stella


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Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2006, 08:27:55 PM »
We have done this with Bailey tto and sometimes he doesn't realise he is loose and walks next to us without us holding the line, then he spots a bird, then he is off!

Can I ask where you got the info for the training school from?!!! :police: ^_^
  Mich, Bailey and Poppy xxxxx

Offline Wendy G

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2006, 08:42:47 PM »
We actually found it on the internet.It is called Safe Pets U.K also Canine Lifeline is their rescue site.It was in Lincolnshire but is now somewhere in Leicestershire.
Wendy, Bailey & Stella


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Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2006, 08:48:12 PM »
ooo that is quite close to me!  thanks very much i will have a look tonight!
  Mich, Bailey and Poppy xxxxx

Offline waisis

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2006, 09:02:54 PM »
I think 2 weeks is not a very long time to be seeing good results.  When my Bailey noticed his first squirrel, his recall went out the window and I trained him on a long leash for what seemed like forever...about 4 months...before I saw gradual results and felt more confident to let him off.  When you are out on the long leash, do you only recall him if there's only a distraction?  I tried to set Bailey up for success so I would recall him a number of times when it was likely that he would come (i.e., minimal distractions, him not too far away).  That way he would gets lots of treats (cheese works pretty good for him) and associate the positive with coming as opposed to being reeled in whenever he hears come.

For exercise, we went on really long walks on the long leash so he could still sniff about and played lots of fetch in the house to tire him out.  He had a thing for birds too and the worst time was with these low flying sparrows and Bailey chasing them and whining as he couldn't catch them and me chasing after him throwing balls and frisbees in his face to get his attention.  I only managed to catch him when he stopped to catch his breath!  Everyone in the park was laughing by this time and going "Aww he's so cute!"...okay whatever...
Bailey and Mom

Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2006, 09:43:23 PM »
.  He had a thing for birds too and the worst time was with these low flying sparrows and Bailey chasing them and whining as he couldn't catch them and me chasing after him throwing balls and frisbees in his face to get his attention.  I only managed to catch him when he stopped to catch his breath!  Everyone in the park was laughing by this time and going "Aww he's so cute!"...okay whatever...

This sounds just like my boy! I am glad that you have replied and said that it took alot longer than 2 weeks, I suppose I just need to keep going!!
No I don't only recall him when he is distracted, in fact I try my best to do the opposite!To set him up for sucess as you say!
  If you read my earlier posts you will see that Bailey is not food orientated, even when he does come back to me and I offer him a treat he rarely takes it, even if it is warm cooked chicken!!
Thankyou, I will keep going and hope for some results by 2007!! :laugh:
  Mich, Bailey and Poppy xxxxx

Offline debbie321

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2006, 09:52:07 PM »
I wish I had an answer to this one.  Ben is after 'humping material' all the time :o.  The only thing that works under usual circumstances is me shouting 'I'm going now' and running in the opposite direction.  If there is a girl (or attractive boy  :police:) I have no chance!  He does seem to panic if he loses me so I play on this  ^_^  But as i've learnt to my cost, he doesn't care if  :-* is available.  He was castrated 3 days ago but it hasn't made any difference yet  :huh: I'll have to wait a couple of months to see the true result (if any).  He is on lead walks only for 10 days so I hope that the extendable lead will help with training - all I get is 'spaghetti leads' at the mo ^_^

PS - also found a use for the policeman icon (village people are universally recognised  ^_^ ^_^)

Offline Helen

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2006, 09:56:15 PM »
just a thought...and only a thought...are there any gun dog trainers near you?? it may be a possibility that some gun dog exercises (they wouldn't approve of his bird chase, and want him just to flush and retrieve) would help - he's obviously active and bright so may very well respond to the training.  

i may be completely off beam, but he's a working cocker and he's after birds, so if his mind was concentrated he may respond well to training.  he is young, and a lot of gun dog trainers won't take on a dog before they're 9 months to a year old, but you may find someone and some training exercises that help.

i have friends that never shoot, but they take their working cockers go out most weekends to 'work' (without the death of one bird!!!)  - basically to flush out pheasants, but also to respond to whistle commands, and directions and they are soooooo happy!

 :police:  just because debbie used it...


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Offline debbie321

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2006, 10:05:48 PM »
 Quote........... :police: just because debbie used it... Quote.............

I have good reason to - I think Ben is 'bi' with or or without bits and bobs!

Admin - Please don't give me a warn message!!  Just saying how it is with this working cocker :laugh:

did the ...Quote....bits myself as I don't know what I'm doing!

Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2006, 10:09:07 PM »
Yes I have though about this and have found a local gundog trainer, well Paula (Maximus) found it for me, but they wont take working cockers till 9 months at the youngest, due to them being difficult to train before then!

He is due to start 'normal' obedience  in about a week so we shall see how that goes!

Thankyou for all your thoughts everyone, please keep them coming! :laugh:
  Mich, Bailey and Poppy xxxxx

Offline clairep4

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2006, 10:09:45 PM »
Aww, Miche, I'm really sorry to hear about this. I have a similar thing with Bella and squirrels - she is absolutely obsessed. If we drive into Greenwich park and she spots one on the way to us parking the car, she will be absolutely trembling with excitement by the time I park and go to let her out. She will stand there transfixed by one for absolutely ages, her whole body trembling (sometimes so much that I get quite concerned!) and nothing whatsoever can compete.

I've tried:
- keeping her on a long line (she just strained on the end of it to see squirrels)
- avoiding squirrel areas (she knows where they are so would just head off to them regardless - literally disappearing for 5-10mins at a time and coming back completely unconcerned)
- hiding from her (works until she sees me at which point she'll kind of go "oh THERE you are" and not come to me but carry on looking for squirrels, or even more irritatingly, run towards me as if she's being really good then keep going right on by.  >:(
- offering her the tastiest possible treats - one day I had a sausage sandwich in the park. Normally she'd kill for a bit of sausage but I held a piece literally in front of her nose and all she did was dodged out the way as I was blocking her view!  ::)
- taking her favourite toys - a chuckitt, a squeaky toy, a ball on a rope - but although she's very motivated by these in a non-squirrel park, they just don't come anywhere near for her when there are furry creatures nibbling chestnuts nearby.

In the end I talked to my dog walker to see what she does. She's a behaviourist and also the owner of 2 greyhounds with very strong chase instincts. She said that basically once they are chasing their recall tends to just go out the window because the instinct is stronger. The only thing she'd found that worked for her was to make them think she'd spotted a better squirrel in the opposite direction - this at least got them to go the way she wanted them to. Bella is not interested in catching them - or doesn't seem to be, as she will watch them, absolutely transfixed, for ages, and not actually run towards them until they are on their way up a tree. I think it's more about the mystery of them suddenly vanishing into thin air for her...

So  anyway I took up the dog walker's idea and spent a few days like a complete loon, looking out for squirrels, spotting them and running towards them yelling "Bella SQUIRREL!!!" until she got the hang of it. She very quickly learned the word and loved the fact were joining in the fun. I noticed that she kept really watching me and listening out for me yelling the magic word and it was great to have her actually paying me any attention at all.

This meant that if she was heading off into the trees in the wrong direction, I could at least shout this word and she would come back to me (extremely quickly) looking for the squirrel. The drawback is that you can't kid a cocker for long so 8 times out of 10 I do have to have actually spotted one for her. So it doesn't make her recall 100% by any means but it does mean I can keep her more or less in view, attentive to my voice and can quickly get her to come in my direction if I need her to.

She's still obsessed with them - today for example we spent an hour in Greenwich park, no squirrels around whatsoever but she still spent most of that hour looking for them just in case.  ::)

I know it's probably not what any books or behaviourists would suggest and it certainly hasn't cured Bella's obsession but it's the only way we can get her to pay any attention to us. Also just to add that we try to not actively encourage her with this behaviour - if we're on a walk where she's not obsessing about them and I spot one I certainly don't point it out to her, it's just if she's obsessing then at least I can for the most part get her to head my way.

Just thought I'd throw it into the mix in case it was of any help.

Good luck with Bailey, I know how frustrating it can be!
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