Out of charachter warning growl?

[Cazzie]

Jan

Im peeving you off and I am sorry I could go on and on but I wont as I will prob be chastised about it and be called patronising and I really dont want that so will shut it . I love you all especially the dogs. You do what you think is best for you. cx  

[Jan/Billy]

Jan

Im peeving you off and I am sorry I could go on and on but I wont as I will prob be chastised about it and be called patronising and I really dont want that so will shut it . I love you all especially the dogs. You do what you think is best for you. cx  

Not at all   You are entitled to your say as much as the next person  


I am just amased at times about how we all get along for ages and then "bang" something like this happens and we discover that we all have such hugely different views about our dogs  

We are all entitled to our opinions, it would be a boring place if we all sat here quiet not saying how we felt & there would be no point in the forum  

At the end of the day there is no set in stone  "right" or "wrong" answer, it's only what we as individual dog owners believe  

[Cob-Web]

Jan

Im peeving you off and I am sorry I could go on and on but I wont as I will prob be chastised about it and be called patronising and I really dont want that so will shut it . I love you all especially the dogs. You do what you think is best for you. cx 

I agree with Jan - I am keen to learn; when I joined COL, all I knew was dominance rolls and check chains  I am keen to hear as many different opinions and techniques as possible so that I can pick and chose the bits that make sense and work for me; thats how we all learn and grow 

I am genuinely interested in how you do allow your dogs to express themselves if they are unhappy with a situation they find themselves in, either by accident or despite your management of their environment - at the moment, I recognise growling as a dogs "natural" response, but if you have found an alternative solution, then I definitely want to hear about it 

[Rhona W]

But I will ask you, do you think it is acceptable that a dog growls at you because I dont and I will never accept it thats why I will continue to own dogs that do not have aggression issues.

So what would you do if one of your dogs did have aggression issues? 

I don't suppose anyone thinks their cute little puppy will grow up to become aggressive/growly. Or do we have dogs that growl because we are cr@p trainers? 

[Cazzie]

But I still stand by my previous reply, and will not tollerate that behaviour in this house and it is made clear from day 1.

Can I ask how you obtain that submissive, repressed attitude from your dogs?

My dogs are anything from submissive or repressed they are happy outgoing dogs who are comfortable in all situations 

My dogs have been pulled/lifted and so on by kids that come to my house but are alway's supervised as they normally sticks their tounges in peoples mouths Knock kids over and steal food out of kids hands. 

I think you have been very lucky so far, and if you allow children to continue to behave like this towards your dogs then imo, it is a case of when, not if, one of your dogs bites

You have taught your dogs to suppress their natural method of expressing their discomfort......what behaviour do you permit them to express when they are in a situation that they are not comfortable with ??  or are you so confident in your control of your dogs environment that you are sure that they will never be faced with the unexpected ?

I have not taught my dogs to supress their natural behaviour as I have just stated they are very comfortable in all situations, why would they not be. They have all been extremely well socialised with kids/cats/dogs/hens/rabbits and so on since day one and have never had any worries with any of them. They know they are not at threat or in any danger within every day situations, but as a sensible owner I would never leave my pack of dogs with any child unattended and never have said I would.

How the heck do you think I can bring any animal/dog/person into my home and they accept them without fuss or aggression it certainly isnt with me supressing their natural behaviour, its years of socialisation from day 1. Just ask anyone who has been in my home with all my dogs.

[Michele]

Ok, so what would be a natural reaction for one (any) of your dogs if someone came up behind it and startled it?

I know if someone came up behind me and startled me, I would jump and then probably give them a mouth full. 

[Cazzie]

Jan

Im peeving you off and I am sorry I could go on and on but I wont as I will prob be chastised about it and be called patronising and I really dont want that so will shut it . I love you all especially the dogs. You do what you think is best for you. cx  

Not at all   You are entitled to your say as much as the next person  


I am just amased at times about how we all get along for ages and then "bang" something like this happens and we discover that we all have such hugely different views about our dogs  

We are all entitled to our opinions, it would be a boring place if we all sat here quiet not saying how we felt & there would be no point in the forum  

At the end of the day there is no set in stone  "right" or "wrong" answer, it's only what we as individual dog owners believe  

Jan we will always get along as we are adults. It is very difficult to express individual situations by typing on a forum, as I have said many times, I live breathe and eat dogs, they are with me 24/7 and I learn alot from others mistakes and I am constantly training my dogs and learning from Pro traininers, I wouldnt say Im an average dog owner as I have dogs in and out here all the time and my whole life is dogs. What works for me maybe wont work for another. You will just have to come here and see for youself  

[Jan/Billy]

How the heck do you think I can bring any animal/dog/person into my home and they accept them without fuss or aggression it certainly isnt with me supressing their natural behaviour, its years of socialisation from day 1. Just ask anyone who has been in my home with all my dogs.

But if this had been your dog ( I know you wouldn't have put your dog in this situation as you have stated) who reacted like this, what would you have done?

I'm not having a go, just curious  

[Nicola]

Ok, so what would be a natural reaction for one (any) of your dogs if someone came up behind it and startled it?

I don't know if Alfie and Tilly are strange dogs because if this happened to them they would probably jump but then they would turn around and then start wagging their tails at whoever it was had startled them. I have never heard either of them growl, it is just totally not in the nature of either of them. It doesn't seem to ever occur to them in any circumstance. I don't generally put them in situations where they will be grabbed etc. but when I was at home at Christmas my Stepbrother (who is 23!) came up behind Tilly when she was totally engrossed in looking out of the window and grabbed her around her 'waist' ... she jumped a bit then turned around and started doing her whole body wiggles while trying to lick his face.

I'm not saying this to look 'superior' in any way, and I don't really think it's anything to do with my training as I didn't get Tilly until she was 2. I'm just stating 100% honestly how it is with them and it is simply not in their nature to growl or show aggression. It's just their personalities and all are different as people are. Anyone who has met them will confirm that they are in no way cowed or submissive dogs, quite the opposite!

I can also say that the two of Cazzie's dogs I have met, Sweep and Belle, are very sweet natured but happy, lively and outgoing dogs also.

ETA: Just to clarify, Tilly had never met my stepbrother when he grabbed her, he'd just walked in the door. He is only ever at my Mum and Stepdad's house at Christmas so to her he was a complete stranger.

[*jean*]

For what its worth I think "in the old days" if a dog growled it was reprimanded.. basically put in its place without due regard to what caused the dog to growl or if anything could have been learned from it. Its an old outdated way of training a dog. The culture clash by jean donaldson explains things better than I ever can.
 If a strange person came up behind me and pulled me backwards I beleive I would get a fright and react. so why do we expect a dog to just take everything we throw at them they arent machines..
 now I have 2 dogs who have never growled at a human and I suspect never will. I have another dog who has.  once she was in the car couldnt get away and someone foolishly went in to pat her when I wasnt there. they were very lucky growl was all she did. All she is doing is saying she is frightened . Because shes my dog and i know her as well as i know myself almost, I de escalate things before they happen. If a child grabbed her from behind she would die of terror.. If she thought there was danger ie a child about she would hide if she cant hide she backs under my legs pokes her nose out and gazes fearfully at the source of her fears. if the child is doing as its told and just sits down calmly and waits pepper will eventually decide its safe to come out and will end up sitting beside the child getting patted all closely supervised by me . pepper I have to add will do anything to avoid confronation she just wants peace..  many other dogs have more serious issues..
I do not allow my dogs to lick my face ( they may just have licked something disgusting.. who knows.?.) or steal food but I do allow them to tell me how they feel if they are happy it shows.. if they are sick it shows .. in their body language why are they not allowed to show fear or dislike.  we humans do it all the time ..I can takes fresh bones away from my dogs do anything with them but thats me...they trust me..they know me..I might let my OH nick a chip but would I allow a stranger to help himself to my food?.. how can you expect a dog just to accept this if you wont?
 everyone is entitled to their own opinion its a free world..and as educated adults we should be able to listen to anothers point of view and even if we really dont agree they are allowed to have differing views..  we should agree to disagree..
 I personally dont care for snappy little dogs. Im a bit nervous of them..I prefer big dogs...theres a pom locally whos a bit of a nipper but its usually for a very good reason.. hes afraid of various things. I wont go into it but he has a silly owner who puts him in situations which scare him. .hes got to know me now and looks out for me and I get a great welcome. I used to avoid this wee dog now I just feel sorry for him.
 anyway back to the origional thread my dog pepper would have reacted the same   liath and rolo would have spotted the kiddie first and would have been more than happy to play away.. my point being all dogs are different just like us people and surely they too are allowed to have different personalities and ways of coping too. ps pepper has had the same socialising as all my dogs same upbringing nothing different ... whats different is her its her personality they are not all clones of good behaviour..its like kids you have 3 all brought up same way .. why then does one get into trouble and the other 2 not? its individuality..

[Cazzie]

Ok, so what would be a natural reaction for one (any) of your dogs if someone came up behind it and startled it?

I know if someone came up behind me and startled me, I would jump and then probably give them a mouth full. 

They would react differently: Belle & sweepie would get a fright but would not turn & growl or snap, Goose would not bother his bum, Neither would Daisy.

[*jean*]

how would you react cazzie if someone grabbed you from behind? someone you didnt know..?

[*jean*]

[quotehow would you react cazzie if someone grabbed you from behind? someone you didnt know..?][/quote]


 me Id scream the house down but then Im nervous too..

[Jan/Billy]

If someone startled billy from behind, even a stranger, I'm probably 99% certain he'd be fine.

But put him in the situation described by the OP & I'm sure he'd growl  


If someone startled me from behind I'd probably scream, or "thwack" smack em in the chops  

[*jean*]

If someone startled me from behind I'd probably scream, or "thwack" smack em in the chops 

I think our dogs are def more tolerant than we are!! Id poop a brick!