Clicker training.......Does this work for barking???

[Jane S]

I get that - it's just that despite being polite some points seem to be made to dispel people's opinions, and then for me it is no longer a discussion.

As a newbie on the site - I would like to feel I could contribute; not be shot down in flames as soon as I mention CM or clicker    or any other contentious issue I will unknowingly unearth

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point I don't see anybody being shot down in flames here - just intelligent adults giving their views on a subject they feel strongly about. Of course some subjects are more contentious than others (must admit, I hadn't thought clicker training was one of them ) but we do allow people to have their say as long as they stay within Forum Etiquette Guidelines.

Oooh, ooooh,  can I say all the reasons why Cesar Milan is dangerously inadequate? Can I?!  Please?! Please?! 

Don't think we're due another Milan discussion just yet but for those interested, a forum search will bring up previous threads where this subject has had an airing

[KellyS]

Don't think we're due another Milan discussion just yet

Thank god don't think i could cope with another one just yet!!

There are a lot of people that don't post their thoughts and opinions for fear of ending up in a long and arduous debate with some that seem to see it all there way, only they are right and that is it. It's a shame for those members (and in turn the cockers - which is why we are all on here) who could possibly be more inclined to join in or question & learn if a more sympathetic approach was taken, instead of trying to blind & intimidate people with science and facts & equations which lets face it to the everyday cocker owner probabally means nothing   I've always been one to say what I think and will stand up/question something I don't feel comfortable with, rightly or wrongly, but what you see is what you get

[Cob-Web]

There are a lot of people that don't post their thoughts and opinions for fear of ending up in a long and arduous debate with some that seem to see it all there way, only they are right and that is it.

I'm sure that everyone who has contributed to this debate is aware that there is more than one way to train a dog; I know I am 

The problem is, that not all methods are risk-free; and in order for a novice dog-owner/trainer to make a decision about which methods they choose, they need to know all the possible outcomes 

Never a day goes by when I don't wish that I had known When someone I trusted, and who I perceived was in a position of responsibility told me their way of training (based on hierarchy and dominance), they omitted to tell me that it wasn't risk-free, and could (especially in the hands of an *everyday owner* such as myself) lead to longer term, far more severe problems than the one it was designed to resolve 

If people make an informed choice and have the confidence to use training methods that carry risk, then so be it - but if the advice that is given to dog-owners seeking help is one-sided and fails to highlight the negative possibilities of the methods recommended, then they may end up experiencing the heartache that I did 

[Eceni]

The problem is, that not all methods are risk-free; and in order for a novice dog-owner/trainer to make a decision about which methods they choose, they need to know all the possible outcomes 

Never a day goes by when I don't wish that I had known When someone I trusted, and who I perceived was in a position of responsibility told me their way of training (based on hierarchy and dominance), they omitted to tell me that it wasn't risk-free, and could (especially in the hands of an *everyday owner* such as myself) lead to longer term, far more severe problems than the one it was designed to resolve 

This is so, so true - the problem, I think, is that a lot of  people don't understand the basis of what they're doing and are not competent to understand - and therefore to explain - the likely outcomes.  Behavioural science isn't brain surgery or rocket science, but it does require some basic understanding - which until recently wasn't all that widely known. So people did what they thought 'worked' and then cobbled a pseudo-scientific reason onto it and then proceeded to teach it to other people from a position of profound ignorance. 

the only thing we can do is to be examples of good practice

ms

[Joelf]

A most interesting debate!!

Sorry but why would anyone want to do this with a horse?

I have to say that was exactly my thought when I read this; however if someone has found a method that works with their horse then jolly good luck to them........it wouldn't suit me but what the hell??!! ......I've only ridden & had horses for the last 40 odd years??!!

I shall now go off & hide & eat worms!!  

[Eceni]

but did you understand the answers?

it changes our relationships with our horses.  It broadens, deepens and expands our understanding of ourselves and them. I am surrounded by people who've had horses for 40 years.  I changed yards twice to escape them.  I'm sure you're not as abusive as they were, but they had no idea at all that what they were doing constituted anything but normal practice.  Actually, it *was* normal practice, in the same way that for some people choke chains are check chains and entirely constructive.  It just wasn't how I wanted to be.

e

[KellyS]

I've only ridden & had horses for the last 40 odd years??!!

Unless you have scientific knowledge and the relevant qualifications I'm afraid your not qualified to comment

Sorry I couldn't resist

That's a good way of putting it Cobweb and I fully understand where your coming from everyone needs to be able to make an informed choice
and Eceni - i can understand using clicker training to occupy a box-ridden horse, hadn't thought of it in that respect.

[Top Barks]

A most interesting debate!!

Sorry but why would anyone want to do this with a horse?

I have to say that was exactly my thought when I read this; however if someone has found a method that works with their horse then jolly good luck to them........it wouldn't suit me but what the hell??!! ......I've only ridden & had horses for the last 40 odd years??!!

I shall now go off & hide & eat worms!!  

You could ask why bother to train any animal?

[Jane S]

Right, I'm going to put this one to bed now as it seems to have run it's course.