Author Topic: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!  (Read 1222 times)

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Offline Cockertime Blues

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Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« on: July 20, 2011, 12:53:45 AM »
And I’d recommend it to anyone, even if you’re only a tad worried about your dog’s behaviour.  He was fantastic and came highly recommended (plus I ran him past Top Barks for approval ages ago) and was not expensive.  It was worth every penny of £90 to me to have him tell OH to stop playing tug-o-war with Mollie (I’ve only been saying this for 5 years . . .)

He cleared up a lot of confusion for me about Mollie’s behaviour because I could never tell if she was fear aggressive or a big bully.  I was looking for an either/or when in fact she is both.  Apparently it’s not common but it happens, and it’s not an easy one.  (And I noted the word to use is “pushy” and not dominant or bullying.   ;) )

First off he had us categorise Mollie’s issues (pinning Alfie, snapping at visitors when they pet her, snapping when touched during stroking/grooming/medicating, and guarding stolen high-value items) and we each had to prioritise them.  For me, the main issue was her pinning Alfie to the ground (quite often on some days) as I worried about Alfie.  They fought for the first year they were together (fortunately bloodless) but for the past couple of years he has chosen not to fight and just lets her get on with it.  I worried about him becoming depressed or getting low self-esteem (whatever that is in dog terms) but the behaviourist said he thought Alfie was handling it reasonably well and he had no concerns about Alfie, which I can tell you was a load off my mind.  For OH, the big issue was me not interacting with Mollie enough.  (My fault – I’m a wimp, she’s scary sometimes and as a result I don’t like her that much to be honest.)

Anyway, she’s lacking in self-confidence , cannot deal with frustration, and has very poor communication skills (all partly because of her poor start in life).  We’ve got basic exercises to do to reduce her frustration levels (so she doesn’t take her anger out on Alfie) and exercises to build up her ability to be touched all over and some basic basket muzzle training.  It’s all quite simple and very time-consuming.  But I think I just wanted inspiration, clarification, and for OH to take it all on board (which he has).

One interesting thing for me was that he said her poor communication skills are compounded by her being black (ties up with Black Dog Rescue Syndrome that was mentioned on COL a bit since).  Her black face is less easily read by us, and because she has spaniel ears we can’t read them like for instance a GSD’s where they prick up or flatten, and hence she feels she has to enlarge her responses to let us see she doesn’t like something, i.e., by snapping.  As far as visitors are concerned, well the thinking seems to be that since they’re our visitors and Mollie’s our dog –  we must simply control the visitors rather than the dog.

Regime change starts tomorrow, and it'll take several months to accomplish whatever can be accomplished, and at almost 6 years old it won't be very perfect.  Only problem at the mo is that we’ve got visitors staying almost constantly (some with dogs) from now through the back of August.  Ho hum.

Huge post but wanted to share.  And wanted to hear how others have got on with behaviourists’ advice.  And does anyone else have a bolshie/scared dog?

Offline Top Barks

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2011, 07:22:24 AM »
glad you got some answers :D

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
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Offline Evadee

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2011, 08:06:45 AM »
Wow, you "sound" absolutely elated  :bigarmhug:

So great to read your post.  Everything must make so much more sense now and make you feel more positive and confident about the situation. 

Good luck with the new regime, it will be worth it I am sure, hope things progress at a nice pace for you and you start to reap the rewards.

Thanks for sharing, if I am ever in doubt about any part of Tia's behaviour I would be straight on to a behaviourist.
 

Offline jann

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2011, 09:15:04 AM »
 :D  Great, what a wonderful positive post. I'm so glad you were able to find out so much from this  ;)   your behaviourist sounds wonderful !

 good luck, and hope you can bond more with Mollie now you understand her issues better  ;)

 

Offline LottieLu

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2011, 09:41:29 AM »
What a really lovely post  :bigarmhug:.

Had tears in my eyes when I read your post. I know you say that you've found Molly difficult to relate to and scary and 'don't like her much', however to me, nothing but care and concern for her shines out from your post. You've clearly thought long and hard about how to help everyone involved and I can't tell you how pleased I am for you that things are looking so positive. :-*

Offline LynneB

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2011, 10:16:02 AM »
And does anyone else have a bolshie/scared dog?

2 of my bichons fall into this category, my boy is protective of his "girls" and will nip anyone who comes to the house and gets near enough to the fence. The girl had not been well socialised when we got her at 6 months so is nervous around strangers, she is the sweetest thing until she gets with the rest of them then she will nip (strangers, not us). She bit my nephew earlier this year (he's 14), luckily my sister was very understanding :embarassed:
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Offline Ninasmum

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2011, 10:18:38 AM »
Fab news  :banana:  You sound very upbeat & positive.  :shades: :D
Not sure if i agree with black dog's being harder to read their body language though  :huh: obviously i'm not a behavourist, but Georgia is solid black & don't have prob's interpreting her body language.  :shades: :D


Nina, Jo Jo, Georgia & Alfie

Offline ladylola

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 02:49:22 PM »
They say other dogs find it hard interpreting a black face. :-\



Julie. Owned by Sasha, Ellie, Monty, Paisley, Louie & Molly
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Offline john51

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2011, 03:49:45 PM »
"And does anyone else have a bolshie/scared dog?"

Glad it's brought you clarity and good luck working on the issues identified.

Lenny has been with us just over 5 months and is a 3 yr-old black and tan from CAESSR. We've tried very hard, and feel we've made progress, but keep getting relapses in behaviour and it may be that we have to admit that we need help. He seems to show very similar behaviours to Mollie. He arrived with food aggression (now managed but still with occasional growling/barking); resource guarding - especially toys (again much improved but occasional reverting to a snarling psycho completely out if the blue); and snapping/biting when he doesn't get his own way.

I do think that the right behaviourist might help but have a major concern in how to get one that will be able to find one that can convince me he/she has the right answers. (I recognise that I may be part of the problem there.)

Most of the time he's a loveable dog but when, like yesterday, he gets excited when i come home, brings me his nylabone to look at then suddenly switches and bites me three times it can be difficult.
Home of Lenny and the late, great, Dylan.

Offline Ninasmum

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2011, 07:06:46 PM »
They say other dogs find it hard interpreting a black face. :-\

Thats an interesting point.  :shades:  The strange thing is i would say Georgia is the most uber friendliest dog i have ever had with meeting other dogs & (touch wood) she has never had a bad encounter with another dog.  :shades: :luv:  So presumably the dogs she has met, which must be in the 100's have read her correctly.  :shades: :D 
I'm not saying the theory is incorrect but i guess it can't apply to all black dogs.  :dunno: :shades:

Apologies to the OP for going slightly off your topic  :embarassed:


Nina, Jo Jo, Georgia & Alfie

Offline lindseyp

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2011, 07:53:50 PM »
Wow, you "sound" absolutely elated  :bigarmhug:

So great to read your post.  Everything must make so much more sense now and make you feel more positive and confident about the situation. 

Good luck with the new regime, it will be worth it I am sure, hope things progress at a nice pace for you and you start to reap the rewards.

Thanks for sharing.
 

ditto that from me too - so pleased for you all - sounds like great news  :D  :luv:

We got a behaviourist for Tinker when she was younger & would do so again, if ever I thought it was necessary, for any of my girls  ;)
If your dog thinks you're the best.....don't seek a second opinion!!


Offline Cockertime Blues

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2011, 07:55:46 PM »

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Not sure if i agree with black dog's being harder to read their body language though  :huh: obviously i'm not a behavourist, but Georgia is solid black & don't have prob's interpreting her body language.  :shades: :D

No, but as I said Mollie apparently has poor communication skills and not a lot of self-confidence to start with.  For instance, if someone pets her she finds it nice but also scary and then the need to control things kicks in, possibly by snapping.  If you sit and pet her body anywhere below her ears you can see a slight stiffening of the body to show she's not happy, and it's almost imperceptible to me and definately imperceptible to visitors, none of whom are animal behaviourists.  Maybe it only applies to dogs with unwanted behaviours who also happen to be black because it's the unwanted behaviours you notice.  Dunno.  Anyway, I'd exclude black labs from that - they always seem "open and honest."  :005:

Offline Ninasmum

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2011, 09:41:34 PM »

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Not sure if i agree with black dog's being harder to read their body language though  :huh: obviously i'm not a behavourist, but Georgia is solid black & don't have prob's interpreting her body language.  :shades: :D

No, but as I said Mollie apparently has poor communication skills and not a lot of self-confidence to start with.  For instance, if someone pets her she finds it nice but also scary and then the need to control things kicks in, possibly by snapping.  If you sit and pet her body anywhere below her ears you can see a slight stiffening of the body to show she's not happy, and it's almost imperceptible to me and definately imperceptible to visitors, none of whom are animal behaviourists.  Maybe it only applies to dogs with unwanted behaviours who also happen to be black because it's the unwanted behaviours you notice.  Dunno.  Anyway, I'd exclude black labs from that - they always seem "open and honest."  :005:

Nina, our black/white girl, sounds slightly similar to Mollie  :'(  with lack of confidence/communication skills, esp. with strange dogs/people  :'(  I do really feel for you & Mollie because i know how hard it is & on occasions very upsetting.  :'(

As black dogs seem to be very popular & perhaps have a higher percentage in the dog population,  i am sort of thinking perhaps its just a coincidence there are high numbers of prob's with their body language interpretation.  :-\  I guess we will never know for sure.  :police:

Anyway good luck with Mollie & please let us know how she gets on.  :shades: :D


Nina, Jo Jo, Georgia & Alfie

Offline dal55

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2011, 09:42:34 PM »
Did the behaviourist explain the guarding issue. Cassie "guards" Twigs, balls, stones  etc etc etc for ages She runs off with the article if you try to go to her and will growl but has never bitten. I have never been able to get her to "give" things although I did manage to get her to  " leave " but she got wise to that and now drops it and then, say you throw a twig, will pick up first thing and chase after twig Somes times she had three in her mouth!!! I blame my husband who made a game of chsing her but how do I stop it now

Offline Sarah.H

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Re: Woo hoo we've FINALLY seen a behaviourist!
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2011, 10:26:26 PM »
She does sound like Millie although more reactive, poor you  :-*

The slight stiffening thing is dead on. When Millie meets someone she is scared but has to run up to them and to those not in the know she looks friendly (and I was definitely not in the know when I first got her  :shades:) but there are lots of signs she isn't. Although she is moving forward the whole set of her body is angled back (if that makes sense) and her quarters are lowered, her tail is wagging furiously but it is low, clamped and tight. When the person touches her she freezes and if the person then leans over her she will jump at their face growling.

When she meets other dogs she's often full of adrenaline, her head and tail are up and stiff and she barrels in for the rudest bum or willy sniff. Any sign of anything but appeasement from the other dog usually results in a handbags at dawn situation! A collie cross gave her lovely squinty eyes and a paw lift this morning so she wandered off but he then started barking at me so she charged back over with a barge and a hard stare  ph34r :005:.

Millie