to crate or not to crate

[Katina]

I only use crates in the car and at shows. At home my dogs know how to behave without me having to shut them in a cage.
My dogs have their own room where they spend their nights and the time they are alone. They have their crates there serving as beds, but the doors are always open and they can come and go as they like.
In Finland it's illegal to crate dogs for longer periods of time.  Which I think is good.                    

[Luvlylady]

this is because were stricked and train our dogs not to jump up on the worktops/ tables it also comes in handy as they dont end up jumping dogs like the escape artists that sometimes end up in pounds  .or mabe its because I put alot of time into training them as pups

Ahh I dident put that thats put my mind at rest ,if you read im talking about dogs jumping up causing accidents im actully seeing cratings point of views and asking questions not having a go  :roll:                    

[Laura]

As you have guessed by now I am an definitely on the plus side for crates if used  correctly :!:  however - crates do not suit all dogs - some dogs with separation anxiety for example would simply freak out in a closed in environment like this - even for the shortest periods of time!!  An older dog that is happy to lounge about in your absence has no need for confinement so the door is left open etc etc

Reference the joints - the crate should always be big enough for the dog to stand up, turn around and lie down stretched out - if they can't the crate is too small!!

I believe crates are there to serve a purpose and not to be abused or replace training.  I never used a playpen with my 3 children - but they were put in a highchair with food to eat to keep them in one place when trying to mop or iron etc - another form of confinement but done without cruelty  But I wouldn't stick my 10 year old in there now :shock:     Situations change - and I will adapt accordingly - remembering I have 2 male dogs of course :wink:                    

[lizzy]

I always feel I need to explain myself when I tell people I use a crate.

You do get people that say " I would never crate my dog, it's so cruel " but I can think of many things that are worse.

I would be lost without mine and I personally feel you are being more responsible crating a pup when you can't supervise them because very quickly they can get themselves into untold trouble.

I'm at home all day and Evie is only crated when I'm taking Oscar to pre-school, as it's too far for her too walk ( an hour's round trip ) but Molly comes with me. At night I lock her crate ( at the minute, as she is only 6 months old ) But when she reaches 12 months I'll take the crate down, like I did with Molly, I have never had any trouble with chewing or messing on the floor ( only odd accidents, hey but nobody's perfect :wink: )

I know quite a few people who started off saying a big NO to crate's only 3 months down the line after coming home to ripped lino, chewed shoe's etc wishing they had afterall bought a crate.

Evie is only left in her crate after she has had a play or been out for a walk, for the most 2 hours, I'm sure she enjoys the peace!


Lizzy Molly and Evie                    

[Magic Star]

Ahh I dident put that thats put my mind at rest ,if you read im talking about dogs jumping up causing accidents im actully seeing cratings point of views and asking questions not having a go  :roll:

Perhaps I misread your post then Nic, as it seemed you were implying that the only reason people use crates was to aid with training :roll:  I also found your post to be implying that its cruel to keep a dog "cooped" up in a crate :?   I agree it is cruel to keep a dog cooped up in a crate, for long periods of time.  But, like I said before its highly unlikely that anyone on this forum would do that :wink:                    

[Magic Star]

But when she reaches 12 months I'll take the crate down, like I did with Molly, I have never had any trouble with chewing or messing on the floor ( only odd accidents, hey but nobody's perfect :wink: )

Lizzy, I did this with Indie when she was about 12 months, I took her crate out of the house and into the car  She is an absolute darling in the house and I strongly believe its because she has been crated, she now sleeps in the lounge at night on the sofa, sometimes she comes and sleeps with us   But not all the time, I feel that a pup has to be taught to be independent and not always glued to our sides 24/7, the reason I have this view is I had a rescue dog with severe seperation anxiety  its very distressing for dog and owner!  Also what happens if you have to spend time away from your dog, due to holiday, hospital visit etc etc :?: The change to a dog that knows nothing else but being with the owner permanently including nights can be extremely distressing!  

We go camping as a family and Indie comes with us, at night in the tent, for her safety she is crated in the tent with us, the reason for this is in case, she escapes in the night, in the crate I know she is safe and sound, and certainly wont end up in a pound!!  Indie is happy to go in her crate, as she has been taught from a pup, so you see, crates do have their uses

I feel I have the best of both worlds with Indie, as I have crate trained her, she is happy to go in them now as an adult, she is also fine out of the crate  She is a very adaptable dog and I thank the crate for that!                    

[Magic Star]

I only use crates in the car and at shows. At home my dogs know how to behave without me having to shut them in a cage.  

So does Indie Katina   Just wondered why, you crate your dogs at shows, if your not a crate fan :?:                    

[Luvlylady]

easy mistake mrs bojangles  

She is an absolute darling in the house and I strongly believe its because she has been crated

Just because i dont crate my dog dosent mean shes not a darling in the house .
See you can read into things way to much you can come up with as many conclusions as you like if you do this .like the above example
unless of course you were implying that only crated dogs are good in the house , and all dogs that arent crated get stressed when there owners go away  .which im sure you dident mean   my animals arent allowed to sleep in the bedrooms at night

 :arrow: If you read my posts how there writen you will probably come up with how there ment   arguments can come about easy if we all read into things.                    

[Katina]

So does Indie Katina   Just wondered why, you crate your dogs at shows, if your not a crate fan :?:

Well I have many dogs, where exactly do you think I would put the rest of my dogs when I am in the ring with one, if not a crate  
Besides, in a show, the crate is a place where my dogs can relax.                    

[Magic Star]

Well I have many dogs, where exactly do you think I would put the rest of my dogs when I am in the ring with one, if not a crate    
Besides, in a show, the crate is a place where my dogs can relax.

  Ahh I see Katina, I never really thought about what you would do if you had more than one dog to show :?  I wonder what was used before, the crate came along?

Its good that your dogs have somewhere to relax during a show   I have been to a few shows and they can be quite lengthy though :?                    

[Magic Star]

unless of course you were implying that only crated dogs are good in the house , and all dogs that arent crated get stressed when there owners go away  .which im sure you dident mean   my animals arent allowed to sleep in the bedrooms at night  :arrow: If you read my posts how there writen you will probably come up with how there ment   arguments can come about easy if we all read into things.

Nic, I am not arguing atall, I am stating my personal opinion, like everyone else does   And I did read your post Nic, and in my opinion it did imply that its cruel to crate and I wasn't the only one to get that vibe from it either :roll:

Think we will have to agree to differ on this one Nic :wink:                    

[padfoot]

Hopefully no caring owner would be leaving their dogs in a crate for long periods.
Most adult dogs who have been well-trained do not need to be crated if people leave the house, or at night...I never "crate" Toby now, but he does still have his crate and he chooses to sleep in it (door open).
But there is no denying that with most puppies, crates make house training much easier, and keep the puppy safe.
I really don't think a crate is a substitute for training, but it can be a useful aid.

Incidentally, I completely agree with the stance in Finland...no pup or dog should be crated for long periods...but as Emma states, I doubt that anyone on here would do that.                    

[Katina]

Incidentally, I completely agree with the stance in Finland...no pup or dog should be crated for long periods...but as Emma states, I doubt that anyone on here would do that.

Yes, as I understood, everyone in here only does it for short periods of time. But sadly I know a lot of people in my country (some of them even breeders, not cockers though) that always keep their dogs in crates. They are only let out a couple of times a day to do their business in the garden.
This is somewhat horrible.
And yes, they do get fined, if caught, but they just carry on   ..                    

[Magic Star]

Yes, as I understood, everyone in here only does it for short periods of time. But sadly I know a lot of people in my country (some of them even breeders, not cockers though) that always keep their dogs in crates. They are only let out a couple of times a day to do their business in the garden.
This is somewhat horrible.
And yes, they do get fined, if caught, but they just carry on   ..

  Thats a shame Katina, some people are horrid!                    

[Mike]

If memory serves correct, we have had a few people who have seemed to use crates in ways for which they weren't designed i.e. to coop up their dogs for extended periods whilst they've been out of the house, at work all day for example. It does happen unfortunately - sometimes, because people think misguidedly that they're acting in their dogs best interests. So I can understand why some people may be against crates, for the way in which they "can be, and sometimes are" abused.

That said, to summarise this interesting thread so far, we can all agree that crates used in their proper context can be a valuable aid to rearing a happy, well-adjusted and well-trained dog - and of course equally, that you don't have to use a crate to bring up a well-trained happy dog (I, for example did not, though I have nothing against them n the slightest). So where's the argument?