KC Good citizen - foundation to bronze

[lopey99]

cassie recently passed her KC good citizen dog scheme puppy foundation, we loved the class it was so much fun. The training club took a few weeks break and resumed last wed and we started on the bronze award. What a huge difference it is, its a different trainer who i dont think i like, he started off my telling us how to hold the lead correctly and that dog should always be on left side, simple enough then he told us to make dog sit by our left side by pulling up with lead and pushing down on their bum - is this normal? I always thought the neck was a very delicate area and shouldnt put excess force on it.

anyway did anyone else notice a big step up from what was required from foundation to bronze, it all seems to be a lot more controlled and strict, dont know if this is how it is supposed to be or if it is just a change in trainer. The other dogs seem a lot older than cassie and are a lot calmer and more focused than my bonkers puppy, the trainer isnt a bad person its just a big change from previous trainer who was very food reward based whereas this guy is all about praise and fuss and having a greedy little mite who will only work for food is not helping 

[KatieJean]

We have nearly finished the foundation course and have been asked it we want to go the the bronze. We were given some information and after reading I felt it was the same as we had been doing but a lot stricter but will let you know how we get on in a few weeks

[MegandMolly]

Might be worth seeing if you can do the award with a different trainer / club.

[Eceni]

can you find someone who understands dog behaviour and learning theory?  Anyone who does positive reinforcement training and can help you towards it?  What you describe is at least 20 years out of date and even then was generally considered the 'jerk and puke' way of teaching.

not fun to do for you or the dog.

I'd recommend 'the Complete Idiot's Guide to Positive Dog Training' as a good starter book and if you can find a trainer who's with the APDT they might be more positively inclined?

good luck

e

[Cob-Web]

I found the jump from Foundation to Bronze too extreme when Molo *graduated* from puppy class and we left the club after a few Bronze classes    The training methods were not all positive, and the trainers were very driven and not particularly supportive of new/inexperienced handers 

I spent the next few months reinforcing what we had learnt in puppy classes on my own at home, and then joined a clicker class when Molo had grown out of his "teenage phase" 

[lopey99]

i have the complete idiots guide book and have read it many times, i think thats what alerted me to fact that this trainer wasnt the best and his methods arent conventional. The guy who did the puppy class was great, he was most definitely into positive training. I want training to be fun but i didnt enjoy the class and poor wee cassie didnt know what hit her.

He doesnt seem to break things down into steps e.g. his way of teaching walking to heal was to walk around the hall with dog by left side and just say 'heel' over and over again and he also told a guy who was using a clicker to stop using it as it was a very complex precise process and if he was to use it he would have to use it for everything and not just selectively and as they didnt use clickers in the class for training he shouldnt use it at all.

I'm gonna go back tomorrow night just to make sure i'm not giving up unnecessarily, last week was the first night and he was just giving us a taster of everything that we were gonna be learning so maybe he'll break it all down this week

[Claire83]

 If you aren't happy and the methods being used aren't what you think are positive methods and the class isn't at all fun then I would say, find a different trainer.
We did a really basic puppy class with a trainer then after a couple of months started with the bronze good citizen award, after searching for the right class for us I went throught the APDT website to find a suitable class. The class/club we now belong too we very welcoming and up front and gave lots of information. We were allowed to go along to the class speak with the trainer and watch a class with Roxy before we committed. We were also given all of the KC good citizen leaflets to read too which explain what you learn in order to pass each test.
It was a big jump from puppy to bronze but we weren't pressurized to force our puppies/dogs to do tasks. everything was done at thier own pace, using positive, reward based methods. We had 4 puppies and 3 older dogs in the class to begin with. So it wasn't/isn't a class purely for puppies.

I would say don't give up at all on the training even if it means you have to change trainers as we've found it extremely beneficial. All puppies and dogs learn at different paces too, but most of all it should be FUN. 

I've just seen your other post, That's great that you are giving the class a second chance maybe you can have a quiet chat with the trainer before or after your next class and ask him to break things down for you. Don't be afraid to ask questions either after all you are paying them to help you and your littlun.
After that if it were me and you still aren't happy then i'd find another class hun. 

Good luck though! xx

[silke]

My advice would be - go to a different club/trainer!!! We tried a club once where even the puppy foundation was pressurised and tense. Now we are going somewhere where everything is done with kindness, thought and loads of fun - and we've just passed the gold.

[Eceni]

he also told a guy who was using a clicker to stop using it as it was a very complex precise process and if he was to use it he would have to use it for everything and not just selectively and as they didnt use clickers in the class for training he shouldnt use it at all.

It's a very simple process that requires some fairly simple principles and a spectacularly good sense of timing if you're to get it spot on.  You don't have to use it all the time - I know a lot of horse clicker trainers who use it when alone and then can't when their trainer's about - so use it intermittently. I think you and the bloke with the clicker should get together and set up your own group before this @rse destroys your fun with your dog - and destroys your dogs learning capacity by introducing a whole set of adversives.  Honestly, this is prehistoric.... scary that anyone is still teaching it.  Can you go back to the puppy class guy and get him to give some more classes?

good luck

e

[laurenollie]

We passed the puppy class easily - and went on to bronze - we got a different trainer and i preferred her. I didn't find the training methods changed but everything was a lot harder.

We tried our exam twice and failed both times. Ollie wouldn't stop trying to bite the brush during the grooming bit!!!

The problem i had was they didn't tell us when the test was so i wasn't prepared at all, and then on the night of the test they also told us we couldn't use treats during the task being examined only after. I was gutted becasue i could get Ollie to do it all for food - but without food very hard. If they had told us this i would of practiced without food! Also an outisder lady came to pass us or not and she was a lot tougher!!!

I've given it up now its summer as i'd much prefer to enjoy walks with him then in winter when its dark and mis we may take it up again or agility!!!

L x