Please please help!!

[Hurtwood Dogs]

I admire you for your honesty 

Just so you know, it's quite possible that she'd be biting as much even if you were home 24x7 - my second cocker pup was HORRIBLE he bit and bit, lunged, growled, made horrendous vicious attack type noises and if I even tried 'Ah ah' or 'No' it incited so much rage in him I had to give up In the end he had his time out place in the kitchen with a babygate across it and for 8 months that's mostly where he was apart from walks and supervised play sessions wearing a long line so I could quietly pull him away from whoever he was attacking without any confrontation and pop him into his cool off area 

I work from home and have young children so he had plenty of entertainment and was still the same HOWEVER, the bit ('scuse the pun ) you need to focus on is that today (he's 2.5yrs now but changed pretty much overnight at 8 months), he is the sweetest, bravest little dog - he looks after us all and just adores snuggling up and cuddling with us. He's brilliant with young children and the best behaved dog socially with other dogs... so with patience and kindness, horrible puppies do grow into very wonderful family dogs... I promise 

Keep your chin up!

Hannah xxx

[buttercup]

Hi Lucy,

Just read your post and I can completely identify - only last week I was posting in complete desperation (end of my tether post)!  Some others have already recommended reading the posts from then - people were really helpful and it has made a difference - not in biting behavious yet, but just in knowing, it is normal and it will get better.

It is also hard for you because you have the worry of having to go out quite a bit, but this might not necessarily be making the situation worse - I am around lots and Ollie is still a maniac  

It is upsetting having to "time out" a lot when you are looking forward to being with them but I think it is just a transitional phase and that being consistent will hopefully mean we end up with happy - non chompy dogs in the future!

It's hard isn't it - but we are not the only ones finding it difficult - I have found this forum really helpful - it cheered me up so much to know that people were there.

Be easy on yourself - it's a massive learning curve for all of us, including the puppies!

Lucy x

Mean to add - have found using a long housline useful for guiding him to time out without getting even more shredded! That and always making sure I have something he can chomp on in my hand when I'm near him...and not letting him run off with it and drop it so he can rush back to eat me!

[JennyBee]

Should we discourage the more aggressive games - tug for example, which makes her growl - so as not to encourage that sort of behaviour given the biting situation, or does she need to 'let it out'?

I don't know what other people think but I found tug games really helpful as Brodie discovered she absolutely loved playing them and it taught her to bite and chew something rather than me . It was a great distraction for her. I wouldn't worry about the growling, it's just play growling and nothing at all to worry about. I made sure she doesn't get too excited though as that's when the mouthing tends to be at it's worst , and it's also great if you can teach her a leave command as well. I agree about the houseline, even with Brodie being 18 months old I still find it invaluable at times.

You do wonder when they're sleeping how they can cause so much havoc, don't you . Also want to agree with Hannah, Brodie has grown from a mini piranha into the most wonderful, happy and well-tempered dog I could ever have wished for, it has all been worth it .

[loudgg]

Time out really does work. i know you feel terrible doing it...i'm the same but please stick with it. You will have to put her out less and less as she catches on. Our lab went through a bad stage at around 7 months. My OH was working away from home and I was trying to cope with this large dog on my own. He started to bark for attention all the time and I mean constant barking . I couldn't even sit and eat dinner without him in front of my barking for attention. I began to use time out everytime he started off on one ( and got a few scratches for my trouble). It did take a while to sink in but he realised that that behavour was going to get him the opposite of what he wanted and it tailed of. I now have a 4 1/2 year old lab that always get compliments on how quiet he is. People don't even realise we have a dog in the flat when they come to the door.
I am now stuggling to cope with my 14 week cocker Bailey as he pesters Toby constantly and am trying timeout for this issue too.....so fingers crossed

[Karma]

Agree with JennyBee - I don't think we'd have got through the puppy months without tug!!!  

As long as you have some rules to it, it certainly doesn't lead to an aggressive dog - it's still Honey's favourite game, and she "growls" while we play it, but she is utterly under control!!  
The groundrules we had was 1) Game stops the second teeth make contact with skin (just for a few seconds - but even if the teeth touching was accidental).
2) When we said "Give" she had to tugging.... this took a while to learn, but basically, we just stopped playing, but kept hold of the toy - it became uninteresting, as it wasn't moving, so she let go, and we immediately praised and resumed play...
3) Once we had a solid wait command, we also would make her wait for a release to start the game, even if we were waving the toy around....

We sometimes get her to give the toy, and throw it, as a bit of a retrieve exercise, and we sometimes let her win (it's lovely to see her do a "victory circuit" around the room before coming back to us to continue....
But Honey is never out of our control - she may sound like she's about to kill something, but she really isn't!!!!

Dogs do have a need to chew/bite things, but this way you are teaching her the right things to chew!!  

[Ben's mum]

Ben was a home alone pup when he was small and was fine.  I know its not ideal but it can work, just needs some re-adjusting.  I used to get up at the crack of dawn to take him out for a walk, or carry to look at new stuff, when too young, then play for about an hour before I went to work.   I'd leave him in his crate with a kong and biscuits hidden in the blankets.  I used to come home for an hour at lunch and walk or play or both.

However why it worked for us was when I came home at 4pm, was Ben's 'day' and he had massess of games, attention and training time until about 11pm when he would flake out (and us too)  I don't think we watched any TV for the first year we had Ben
It was exhausiting if I am honest and we never left him at all evenings or weekends to make up for being out at work.
Even now he gets reved up and ready to play throughout the evening (he's 6!)

It was hard work, but so totally worth it.  It worth finding out if you have any reliable dog firendly neighbours who want a pup to cuddle without but who can't own a dog.  when Ben was a little bigger he went to a neighbours in the afternoon to play or just for company.  She loved having him, but was soooo glad when he went home  He still thinks of her as a second mum and goes mad when he sees her 

it does get better!

[Traceysjasper]

Japers 10 months now but i did have problems with biting - this is normal. dogs dont have hands so teeth are their hands if you know what i mean. i nhave always used the word "no teeth" when he bit anyone and this has stuck to this day. also i got him a puppy bone especially for puppies from pets at home and every time her bit or chewed i gave this to him. It didnt take that long, but you mustg be persistent. also crate training was the best thing i done, i felt bad but breeder said this was their safety net and they felt more comfortable with it, i put blanket over top so it was dark for him. i only left him max 4 hours at a time, dad or friend used to come up and feed him at lunchtime and spend an hour with him, then i was back at school time. i dont play tug only because this is what i was advised by my vet you have to be careful that they dont win all the time as they work out your weaknesses. patience is the key but you have to be cruel to be kind in the long run, tell him off if they are doind something wrong or else they never learn x

[JennyBee]

i dont play tug only because this is what i was advised by my vet you have to be careful that they dont win all the time as they work out your weaknesses. patience is the key but you have to be cruel to be kind in the long run, tell him off if they are doind something wrong or else they never learn x

I agree with your first part of your post but not the bit at the end . I think your vet might be a believer of dominance theory, I can't see how a game of tug can lead to a dog working out your weaknesses - when Brodie 'wins' she immediately comes running back to me so we can play again , I have never once had problems with her. I don't really agree with the cruel to be kind bit either, rather than telling a dog off it is far better to ignore him when he is doing something you don't want him to do and reward him when he's good . The crate is absolutely the best thing we ever did with Brodie, she settled in right away, we never once had any problems at night or when we left her alone and she was remarkably quick at toilet-training. I know not all dogs take to it but for us it was great.

[LinzHenz]

I was in the same situation as ben's mum when i first got henry. he was supposed to be for me and my ex boyfriend (who dumped me the day before i went to pick him up, nice) to share so i was expecting he would have him in the daytime. instead i was doing all of it on my own. henry wouldnt switch off even when we spent the whole day together and with all the biting i looked like a self-harmer!!! There was about 3 weeks when i first got him that i considered every day giving him away, it upset me so much to think it or to feel that way about such a cute little thing. But once we got walking and going to training he changed, and im sure your pup will too. I found that going for a walk at lunch or too much playing got him razzed up too much - so we did grooming or training at lunch just silly things like sit and paw, lie down and wait. You'll soon get the fun times you had planned when you first thought about getting a dog i promise. This is the hardest bit (in my experience) unless someone is about to tell me they do something even worse when they turn two! in fact, dont tell me...
xx

[bluegirl]

I'd stop the tug games because she won't be able to differentiaite between whats acceptable to tug on and whats not. Lots of distraction games, always have her toy on hand to throw or wave at her so she can run around with that and shake it. Get her out walking if she's old enough, little and often, if she's not yet able then be creative so she is using up her energy.
Trouble with being left is that every time you see her she's excited you're back and will want to play. Maybe a close relative or neighbour could help out with a bit of pet sitting. I remember when my brothers dog was very young, she came to stay at my house nearly every day. When he took her at night he would grumble that she was aways asleep for him. I'd say its because there was too much going on at my house ie resident dog to pester all day, then 3 children at home time, then me inbetween and ball games and walkies...no wonder she slept when she went home.

[lindseyp]

So, so pleased to hear that everything seems a little better this morning, lucyfo    ......
.....a trouble shared is a trouble halved & all that    Glad you found the other thread ok 
Good luck with everything & I look forwards to hearing/seeing  about little Maddies antics 

[Karma]

I'd stop the tug games because she won't be able to differentiaite between whats acceptable to tug on and whats not.
 

i dont play tug only because this is what i was advised by my vet you have to be careful that they dont win all the time as they work out your weaknesses.

Sorry, but I disagree entirely (and was advised the opposite by the trainers (who are actually qualified in dog training, unlike a vet  ) at puppy class) - Honey knew perfectly well that she could chomp and chew on her toys, but not on us... (despite our friend instigating tug games with gloves  ) - as I said earlier, we were in perfect control of the game - us winning all the time makes the dog reluctant to bring a toy to you, as they always lose it in the end... in needs to be a balance and the game should never get out of control... but tug was definately a life-saver as far as Honey was concerned!! 

[lucyfo]

Thank you everyone! I can't tell you how much better I feel every time I log on to COL!

I've been at home with the lurgy the last few days and Maddy has been just wonderful! The biting and lunging is continuing so we're still having time-outs but now I know it's just a stage she has to go through it is nowhere near as distressing as before. Being at home also means I've had lots of time to do some training with her and she's a fast learner... I think 'drop' is going to take some time though!! Unless you have some very smelly cheese in your hand, there's no way she'll give up anything so I think that is going to be our No.1 challenge!

I have played tug with her as I do think it will help - she does it with the plants in the garden anyway! Importantly, it seems to tire her out and anything that helps her stay calm is fine by me!

Photos coming now... L x