CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => General Cocker Spaniel Discussion => Topic started by: ziggy on July 10, 2004, 07:25:36 PM
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i always thought that putting your dog in a crate wasn,t very nice,,howeverwe went on holiday,and left jasper with a very good friend
who has spaniels amongst others,,and isn,t as daft as me where strictness is concerned,she is very good at getting her dogs to do as they are told,i warned her that when he is away from me he will become very distressed,and as a consequence he would wee or no;2 on the floor,she wasn,t worried,,i now know why,,and it worked,,she put him in a crate,,i can,t do it,because i,m a softie and a wimp ,,worried i may be upsetting my dog,,but i have to say it did the trick,,since i came back from hols,,he hasn,t done a thing,do you think it may have something to do with him going in the crate??
thanx ziggy and a well behaved jasper :D :) :D 8)
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Ziggy
Dont' know if the crate is responsible. All I can say is that my two have been crated (at night) since I had them (2yrs and 1yr). At night I say 'beddy byes' (don't laugh) they jump up, go outside for a quick wee and then take themselves off into their crate - they are quite happy.
During the day I leave the crate doors open and they often go into the crates and have a sleep in them. They would'nt do this if they were not happy - I think they like their own bit of space.
PS Hope Jasper is recovering well after his op - cocker kisses to him x
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I used to think crates were cruel until I started fostering dogs.
Now I think they're a Godsend.
Toby in particular loves his crate. I never shut him in it, even at night, I leave the door open. But he chooses to go in there.
When he was younger I did crate him at night and it definitely helped with housetraining.
As long as crates are the right size and are used sensibly...ie NEVER as a punishment and only for short periods (or night time), I think they are great.
They are very useful for keeping a puppy safe for short periods.
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thanx for the reply suzy,,i think you are right,,they know there own spaceand welcome their privacy,,thanx for asking about him,,he,s doing well,,he,s such a soldier.his pic is in the solids gallery,,you can,t miss him,,red and yellow bandage,lol,,,beddie byes sounds good sweety,,lol,we say all sorts,,lol :lol:
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thanx padfoot,,i know now it,s not a cruel thing to do,,but i wouldn,t have done if my friend hadn,t done this with jasper,,although i have to say,,when we picked him up he was in a crate,,and oh,,my god did he sulk :shock: i haven,t had the need to put him in one since,,he has never wet the floor at night since that,, :wink:
p.s must have been mommy being too kind,,moaning about it but not doing anything to stop it,,,xxxx
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I also thought that crating dogs was cruel until I started to do some research into it. It appears that dogs actually like their crates as its their "safe" place. And the amount of members who have posted to this site in favour of them has really swayed me so I will be getting a crate for Alfie
Suki
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I have a crate as part of the furniture and it was worth every penny. Its left open more often than its closed but it was great for puppy things so I could go out knowing they were safe (I have the sort of open plan downstairs that you can't put a decent barrier across as its basically all one room). It was brilliant when I had to keep Wilf confined to a small area 24/7 for 2 weeks after his lymph node op, and any other thing where they have to 'rest' away from the other or themselves.
Ruby sleeps in it quite often and considers it her bed (or at least one of them).
Got some ear cleaning stuff out tonight for them and found both of them sitting in there as they think of it as their refuge from me LOL
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Crates are the best thing ever to be invented. We got one when Louis was a puppy, he felt safe and secure in it. He goes in himself now and loves it, its his own space. We got the biggest one you can get and we leave him in there when we go out, no longer than 3-4 hours, but when we go to bed he goes in and stays in all night, even if we decide to have a lie in and get up at 8.80-9am, he doesn't make a sound. He's quite happy in there and not distressed in anyway. Sometimes in the morning he doesn't even seem keen on coming out. I think I have a very laid back cocker, a lot of people who have met him say they can't believe how placid and laid back he is for a cocker, but I haven't got anything to compare him with so I wouldn't know.
I did recently dismantle the crate and I left him in the living room and the passage, he was ok the first few times, then he started chewing the carpet, so I put the crate straight back up. He is 10 months now and I often wonder whether I will be able to leave him in the house without chewing, or whether it's going to be the crate forever.!
Gemma&Louis
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I too agree that i used to think crates or puppy pens as i call them were cruel but mine was a Godsend when i had my pups. I bought 2 of the largest ones & i used to push/clip them together doors open so that they had a decent area to move around in.
<Honey> often went in hers (i always left hers up) for some quiet times but neither of them seemed to bother infact i only needed to open their treat jar & they'd run straight in whether they needed to or not :roll: !!!
I also found Honey's to be a real help at meal times as she would try to eat Harveys food as well as her own & daft as he is he'd back off & let her so i started to put her food in her pen so that he could eat in peace & again i'd only start preparing her food & se'd be straight in there.
As someone said earlier as long as they associate their pens with good times & things then they are a great thing to have.
My breeder recommended them to me as he said that pups don't like to soil their bed area so they would help with toilet training... don't know how true this is but it seemed to work for me.
I'm glad that i had the biggest ones as it gave them more room as they grew but the only down side was that they wouldn't fit in our car when they were up!!
luv
juels,Harveymonster & our foster daughter :wink: ...Amber bear (gaynors pooch!!)
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We've not even got Molo home yet, but the crate is up and in place, lined with newspaper with vet-bedding etc all ready (no, we are not at all anxious for him to come home :lol: )
We have a young daughter and the crate (Giant dog size, I should add) is as much to allow Molo somewhere to get away from her as it is to keep him from doing himself or the house harm.
A number of people, including my mum, have expressed their 'horror' that I could consider use a 'cage' - hopefully in 12 months time, when I have a well behaved Cocker spaniel, they will understand the reasons for it.
As we go away alot (weekends at friends and in hotels/self catering) we also think that taking the crate will give Molo security and hopefully he will settle wherever we go.
I first learned about crating from a family we stayed with in the USA about 8 years ago; they rescued abandoned puppies in a very amatur way, but could not live without it. Crates were not really available on the Pet maket in the UK then, and I'd not come across them despite having being involved with a vet practice and rescue centre!
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Hi,
I'm new to crates as well. I bought it when I was showing my cocker. But I really used it when I started to look after my brothers 8 wk old Border Collie whilst he was at work. We had this arrangement where I picked her up and looked after her 7 hrs/day 3 days a week. She is a lovely dog, but totally hyper. I used to give her time out in it to get her to rest. She soon understood it was quiet time and settled down well.
From Karen
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Sorry I have to say I am not in favor of putting a dog in create, Oscar is now six months old and apart from the odd bit of chewing Oscar has been no problems. The breeder that we got Oscar from had already started paper training him. I can understand why people put there dogs in creates but is not for me, or should I say Oscar. We allow Oscar to sleep on the floor in our room at night so there is no need for a create, but this is not for everybody. Oscar does have a couple of safe places, but most of the time he is asleep on his back next to us. As there is only me my wife, Oscar seems he does not need to go and hide. I think most of the time a dog needs a safe place is when they are trying to escape form very lively children.
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Mighty joe, love your avatar.
I didn't use a crate in the house at the beginning only for the car because I too thought it was cruel. However when doggy no.2 came along I had real problems with her house training and was persuaded to try the crates, I am converetd and it is now the best thing ever, no more messes and more so the dogs love their crates. We have a similar night time ritual. Telly off, lights off, doggies go to crates and in they leap and cuddle up for the night. :) Nighty night :)
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I can see it works for you. Me and Sharon Just love spending as much time as we can with Oscar. We like him in our room at night and we don't even mind the 6am wakeup for a play. In the car we have a harness for Oscar on the back seat.
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must confess my first cocker norbert sleeps in the bed with us. it is the girlies who sleep in their crates.
i went to stay at a friends house last friday with norbert as we were going to show sat am, Norbert slept with me in her sons room, we left doors open in case he wanted to go downstairs and at 4 am she was awoken by norbert jumping on her bed with my bra in his mouth wagging his tail. Great eh , they are a great breed :!:
love the looks of oscar lively and happy
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No crates in my house .I dont agree with coping a dog up in a crate , my rabbits gets more room and still they go in there run most of the time . Id rather properly train a dog, yes it might be the hard way , but i think you end up with a very well trained dog . I agree with a run but not a crate.
As for being a safe place , i think most dogs find there beds a safe haven
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Thumbs up for a crate here as well - Brogan and Bailey have a 42" crate that is divided down the centre - they have a side each. When we go visiting people - taking the crate with us is like taking their bedroom on holiday as well!! It is a safe secure place that is familiar to them - so no upsets in a strange environment.
In the day I shut the door when Bailey falls asleep - he can then alert me to his waking so that he can go straight outside to toilet. I also feed Bailey in his crate - to stop Brogan pinching his food!
My friend has just bought a crate for her 6 year old dog after she had one for her new puppy - the adult dog was desparate to use the crate - and that is after having the run of the house all her life!! She will now only sleep in her crate and that is with freedom of choice!
I try to avoid daytime crating as much as possible and will not leave them in it longer than 4 hours (1 1/2 hours for pup at the moment) at any given time. It is nice coming home from shopping or a school run knowing pup couldn't have chewed a wire while you were out - toilet mess wouldn't bother me - a dead puppy would :cry: When Brogan has been left the run of the kitchen the only place you will find him if you return and sneak up - is in his crate :wink:
My dogs will not sleep in the dog bed in the living room - but prefer to sleep in a nook behind the chair - which is closed in - much the same as the crate in the kitchen - which is covered over and cosy :D
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Thumbs up for a crate here as well - Brogan and Bailey have a 42\" crate that is divided down the centre - they have a side each. When we go visiting people - taking the crate with us is like taking their bedroom on holiday as well!! It is a safe secure place that is familiar to them - so no upsets in a strange environment.
In the day I shut the door when Bailey falls asleep - he can then alert me to his waking so that he can go straight outside to toilet. I also feed Bailey in his crate - to stop Brogan pinching his food!
My friend has just bought a crate for her 6 year old dog after she had one for her new puppy - the adult dog was desparate to use the crate - and that is after having the run of the house all her life!! She will now only sleep in her crate and that is with freedom of choice!
I try to avoid daytime crating as much as possible and will not leave them in it longer than 4 hours (1 1/2 hours for pup at the moment) at any given time. It is nice coming home from shopping or a school run knowing pup couldn't have chewed a wire while you were out - toilet mess wouldn't bother me - a dead puppy would :cry: When Brogan has been left the run of the kitchen the only place you will find him if you return and sneak up - is in his crate :wink:
My dogs will not sleep in the dog bed in the living room - but prefer to sleep in a nook behind the chair - which is closed in - much the same as the crate in the kitchen - which is covered over and cosy :D
I agree as I think some people think we love imprisoning our dogs yet mine think of them as a secure den (and a great place to hide when mummy gets the ear cleaner out and then usually you find both of them in there).
Re puppyhood I also found them useful for when I went out Ruby didn't accidentally hurt Wilf (she was quite rough with him even though it was all in the name of play) and this way he could still be around her but safe from her rather than me having to shut one or the other out of the room.
I never shut it anymore (unless they're in their for vet reasons) and Ruby would miss it as her bed even though she uses her other one as well she prefers the crate.
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[Re puppyhood I also found them useful for when I went out Ruby didn't accidentally hurt Wilf (she was quite rough with him even though it was all in the name of play) and this way he could still be around her but safe from her rather than me having to shut one or the other out of the room
As I also own 2 male dogs - I would hate in the future to come back to one of them hurt after a fight - whether play or not. Bailey is a pup now but he won't always be. With only a 9 1/2 month age gap I would not leave them together unsupervised. Using the crate with a divider means they still have each other for company better than being in separate rooms. Fingers crossed they never fight - prevention is better than cure. I have therefore started as I mean to go on.
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when we have pups in the house we shut them in the kitchen .wires when were out are taken out of the sockets.
its nice they can strech there legs have a play . what do they do in the crates for those 4 hours? sleep i should imagen .I love the typical cocker greet waggy stub and all :)
when your cockers are older will you still use them?
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when we have pups in the house we shut them in the kitchen .wires when were out are taken out of the sockets.
its nice they can strech there legs have a play . what do they do in the crates for those 4 hours? sleep i should imagen .I love the typical cocker greet waggy stub and all :)
when your cockers are older will you still use them?
I still get that greeting - usually after Brogan has sat up, had a good stretch and a yawn and then runs out with bum a wagging!! :lol: If I am armed up with shopping Brogan and Bailey are also out of the way while I put them down - saves getting trodden on :idea:
Brogan can sleep for 4 hours with me here - so can definitely do it with me not here! I can't leave Bailey that long yet - we are working up to 2 hours now - can only leave him according to the size of his bladder!! Can't expect any dog to be clean all night and then hold it in all day as well.
As I always give the boys a kong in the crate and usually no other time - Brogan can be quite keen to get me out of the door!!
Crates/dens whatever you call them are wonderful pieces of equipment when used correctly - unfortunatley like most things though - they will get abused by some - now don't even get me started on that one :x There again I feel sorry for a rabbit that is left alone in a hutch all day everyday because the kids have lost interest :cry:
I don't know if I will use the crate with 2 adult cockers - but I know I won't leave 2 male dogs together unsupervised however good their friendship. A stairgate could be an option for later years possibly. I think if I removed the crate now though - I would have 2 unhappy pups with nowhere to call home :wink: They have never known any different so to them it would be strange not having their den. Be a bit like me taking the kids room off them - before they have left home :roll:
A pup should never be put in a crate/den for punishment either - this is their area that is only for good things - a safe retreat.
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I disagree that crates are only useful when lively children are around. I would personally use them if I didn't have children.
I don't crate my dogs when I go out, but I always crate small puppies or new fosters if I have to pop out (which is only ever for a very short period)...the alternatives of fights or a puppy getting into danger are unthinkable.
I have a friend who left her puppy in the kitchen...he managed to jump up and turn on the gas :o Luckily he was okay, the neighbour let herself in to the house when she smelt gas through the vent. This kind of thing terrifies me.
We actually never shut the door on Toby's crate. he is house trained and has grown out of chewing, but he loves going in there (he's in there as I type :lol: ). He sleeps in there during the evening when the kids are in bed sometimes too...it's not so much a place for him to escape to, as a little den he can curl up in.
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We didn't crate Billy but thought that with a new puppy and an adult dog for safety it would be better to crate Abby. She treats her crate as her den and though usually only locked in of a night she does spend time in there of her own choice, usually to hide things that she shouldn't have (socks, teatowels, bra :shock:) Billy also tries to get in there but only to retrieve what she has pinched so that he can do a circuit of the lawn as well :D I like the idea of knowing that she is safe and can't be harmed for the couple of hours a day that she is on her own.
Michelle
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Indie was crated too from a pup :D she has always been fine it, I wouldn't say she was "cooped" up in it but she slept in it at night for safety, infact she loved her crate 8)
Now, we don't crate her indoors, we have the crate in my car for travelling :D When I get my new boy, I will have no hesitation in crating him, in the same way as Indie was :D Crates are perefctly fine, if used properly and responisbly!
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when we have pups in the house we shut them in the kitchen .wires when were out are taken out of the sockets.
its nice they can strech there legs have a play . what do they do in the crates for those 4 hours? sleep i should imagen .I love the typical cocker greet waggy stub and all :)
when your cockers are older will you still use them?
Can't see why cockers who are crated don't/can't give you a greeting though?
Yes will still use the crates even as adults but the door isn't shut so I can't see why thats cruel (beds cosy inside and there's a blanket draped just on the top so they feel secure in there)—only kept them up anyway as Ruby loves hers as a den.
Also I can't shut mine in the kitchen or anywhere else downstairs as the kitchen and sitting room and dining room are all one and they don't have access to upstairs so I'd have had a problem with keeping pups secure and safe (even doing housework would've been a problem as pup could get hurt so was easy to pop in there for 5 min).
...and the cats like to go in the crate for a snooze every now and then (or use it a platform to launch themselves at the dogs or hide from them) LOL
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Hi There
Our crate is a godsend. Bth of ours love it....we have a big crate and they share...and they LOVE their den :D
We also havent had hardly any of the usual puppy troubles...they were both housetrained very quickly and they love going in it at bed. We sometimes shut them out of it.....so they have to socialise with us...they go in it overnight and also when no-one is in the house....they seem to love it anddont suffer any ill effects. Im not planning to stop using yet/...they are still little puppies in my eyes...even tho they are almost one :lol:
Janey x
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...and the cats like to go in the crate for a snooze every now and then (or use it a platform to launch themselves at the dogs or hide from them) LOL
My cats curl up in the crate too...but get a shock sometimes because Toby thinks nothing of just lying on top of them :lol:
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everyone has there own training methods Im actully asking questions trying to understand things :D , penny I never said its cruel I just dont agree with cooping them up . :)
I can leave and come back with nothing chewed up. so I havent got a problem with not crating dogs.
Id rather start my training from the start , Ive had plenty of pups and kittens so has my parents grandparents .. and none of us have ever crated a dog/pup/kitten and we have had no accidents mabe where just lucky? but if thats the case alot of animals have been lucky
mabe this is because were stricked and train our dogs not to jump up on the worktops/ tables it also comes in handy as they dont end up jumping dogs like the escape artists that sometimes end up in pounds :? .or mabe its because I put alot of time into training them as pups :?:
I Simply prefer my animals to have freedom In the house and allowed to strech there legs when they want to :P , i was just putting my views across :) In my last post and asking if those of you will carry on crateing.
Hopefuly as there older they will be able to strech there joints is what i was thinking
I can understand certain points of crating animals . like when padfoot crates her foster dogs . often there personalites arent known well enough to be left to wander with other animals .
And those of you with dogs that might fight with each other :( .
If i had no choice but to crate I think I would build a run in the garden :) Which im already thinking of doing so I can foster :P :idea:
Everyone knows there dogs well enough to know whats best for them if there happier in a crate .. crate them
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:) Nic, we all have our own ways of dealing with puppies, much the same as when we bring up children :wink: . It doesn't mean because we crate our puppies, that our puppies are not trained :? nor does it mean, that we can't be bothered putting the time and effort in to train! I am a stay at home mum, so I am here for Indie all day long and have been since day one and still decided on using a crate :) !
There are no rights or wrongs as long as our puppies are happy, healthy and safe :) , I personally cannot see that anyone on this forum, would overuse a crate to such an extent that the dog cannot stretch its joints :roll:
My brothers dog was left in the kitchen, while they popped out shopping, she chewed through the plasterboard wall, and almost ruptoured the gas pipe :shock: This could have been a disaster, another safety reason to crate puppies :wink:
I can't see how a crate is any different to a bed :? We left the crate door open and Indie was more than happy to pop in and out as she pleased, just how any dog would do with a bed :)
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:? did i say because you crate there not well trained or put effort in
Im really sorry if i did but im sure i dident ,ill have to read that back see what i put ... I was actully talking about my own dog not jumping up :?
having an open crate is totaly different to shutting them in. is a crate roomy enough for a dog to move about alot ? i know older dogs need to move there joints about they get stiff just like humans .
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I only use crates in the car and at shows. At home my dogs know how to behave without me having to shut them in a cage.
My dogs have their own room where they spend their nights and the time they are alone. They have their crates there serving as beds, but the doors are always open and they can come and go as they like.
In Finland it's illegal to crate dogs for longer periods of time. Which I think is good.
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this is because were stricked and train our dogs not to jump up on the worktops/ tables it also comes in handy as they dont end up jumping dogs like the escape artists that sometimes end up in pounds .or mabe its because I put alot of time into training them as pups
Ahh I dident put that thats put my mind at rest ,if you read im talking about dogs jumping up causing accidents im actully seeing cratings point of views and asking questions not having a go :roll:
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As you have guessed by now I am an definitely on the plus side for crates if used correctly :!: however - crates do not suit all dogs - some dogs with separation anxiety for example would simply freak out in a closed in environment like this - even for the shortest periods of time!! An older dog that is happy to lounge about in your absence has no need for confinement so the door is left open etc etc
Reference the joints - the crate should always be big enough for the dog to stand up, turn around and lie down stretched out - if they can't the crate is too small!!
I believe crates are there to serve a purpose and not to be abused or replace training. I never used a playpen with my 3 children - but they were put in a highchair with food to eat to keep them in one place when trying to mop or iron etc - another form of confinement but done without cruelty 8) But I wouldn't stick my 10 year old in there now :shock: :lol: Situations change - and I will adapt accordingly - remembering I have 2 male dogs of course :wink:
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I always feel I need to explain myself when I tell people I use a crate.
You do get people that say " I would never crate my dog, it's so cruel " but I can think of many things that are worse.
I would be lost without mine and I personally feel you are being more responsible crating a pup when you can't supervise them because very quickly they can get themselves into untold trouble.
I'm at home all day and Evie is only crated when I'm taking Oscar to pre-school, as it's too far for her too walk ( an hour's round trip ) but Molly comes with me. At night I lock her crate ( at the minute, as she is only 6 months old ) But when she reaches 12 months I'll take the crate down, like I did with Molly, I have never had any trouble with chewing or messing on the floor ( only odd accidents, hey but nobody's perfect :wink: )
I know quite a few people who started off saying a big NO to crate's only 3 months down the line after coming home to ripped lino, chewed shoe's etc wishing they had afterall bought a crate.
Evie is only left in her crate after she has had a play or been out for a walk, for the most 2 hours, I'm sure she enjoys the peace!
Lizzy Molly and Evie
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Ahh I dident put that thats put my mind at rest ,if you read im talking about dogs jumping up causing accidents im actully seeing cratings point of views and asking questions not having a go :roll:
Perhaps I misread your post then Nic, as it seemed you were implying that the only reason people use crates was to aid with training :roll: I also found your post to be implying that its cruel to keep a dog "cooped" up in a crate :? I agree it is cruel to keep a dog cooped up in a crate, for long periods of time. But, like I said before its highly unlikely that anyone on this forum would do that :wink:
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But when she reaches 12 months I'll take the crate down, like I did with Molly, I have never had any trouble with chewing or messing on the floor ( only odd accidents, hey but nobody's perfect :wink: )
Lizzy, I did this with Indie when she was about 12 months, I took her crate out of the house and into the car :) She is an absolute darling in the house and I strongly believe its because she has been crated, she now sleeps in the lounge at night on the sofa, sometimes she comes and sleeps with us :) But not all the time, I feel that a pup has to be taught to be independent and not always glued to our sides 24/7, the reason I have this view is I had a rescue dog with severe seperation anxiety :( its very distressing for dog and owner! Also what happens if you have to spend time away from your dog, due to holiday, hospital visit etc etc :?: The change to a dog that knows nothing else but being with the owner permanently including nights can be extremely distressing!
We go camping as a family and Indie comes with us, at night in the tent, for her safety she is crated in the tent with us, the reason for this is in case, she escapes in the night, in the crate I know she is safe and sound, and certainly wont end up in a pound!! Indie is happy to go in her crate, as she has been taught from a pup, so you see, crates do have their uses :)
I feel I have the best of both worlds with Indie, as I have crate trained her, she is happy to go in them now as an adult, she is also fine out of the crate :D She is a very adaptable dog and I thank the crate for that!
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I only use crates in the car and at shows. At home my dogs know how to behave without me having to shut them in a cage.
So does Indie Katina :D Just wondered why, you crate your dogs at shows, if your not a crate fan :?:
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easy mistake mrs bojangles :)
She is an absolute darling in the house and I strongly believe its because she has been crated
Just because i dont crate my dog dosent mean shes not a darling in the house .
See you can read into things way to much you can come up with as many conclusions as you like if you do this .like the above example
unless of course you were implying that only crated dogs are good in the house , and all dogs that arent crated get stressed when there owners go away .which im sure you dident mean :o my animals arent allowed to sleep in the bedrooms at night
:arrow: If you read my posts how there writen you will probably come up with how there ment :lol: arguments can come about easy if we all read into things.
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So does Indie Katina :D Just wondered why, you crate your dogs at shows, if your not a crate fan :?:
Well I have many dogs, where exactly do you think I would put the rest of my dogs when I am in the ring with one, if not a crate :lol:
Besides, in a show, the crate is a place where my dogs can relax.
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Well I have many dogs, where exactly do you think I would put the rest of my dogs when I am in the ring with one, if not a crate :lol:
Besides, in a show, the crate is a place where my dogs can relax.
:) Ahh I see Katina, I never really thought about what you would do if you had more than one dog to show :? I wonder what was used before, the crate came along?
Its good that your dogs have somewhere to relax during a show :) I have been to a few shows and they can be quite lengthy though :?
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unless of course you were implying that only crated dogs are good in the house , and all dogs that arent crated get stressed when there owners go away .which im sure you dident mean :o my animals arent allowed to sleep in the bedrooms at night :arrow: If you read my posts how there writen you will probably come up with how there ment :lol: arguments can come about easy if we all read into things.
Nic, I am not arguing atall, I am stating my personal opinion, like everyone else does :) And I did read your post Nic, and in my opinion it did imply that its cruel to crate and I wasn't the only one to get that vibe from it either :roll:
Think we will have to agree to differ on this one Nic :wink:
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Hopefully no caring owner would be leaving their dogs in a crate for long periods.
Most adult dogs who have been well-trained do not need to be crated if people leave the house, or at night...I never "crate" Toby now, but he does still have his crate and he chooses to sleep in it (door open).
But there is no denying that with most puppies, crates make house training much easier, and keep the puppy safe.
I really don't think a crate is a substitute for training, but it can be a useful aid.
Incidentally, I completely agree with the stance in Finland...no pup or dog should be crated for long periods...but as Emma states, I doubt that anyone on here would do that.
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Incidentally, I completely agree with the stance in Finland...no pup or dog should be crated for long periods...but as Emma states, I doubt that anyone on here would do that.
Yes, as I understood, everyone in here only does it for short periods of time. But sadly I know a lot of people in my country (some of them even breeders, not cockers though) that always keep their dogs in crates. They are only let out a couple of times a day to do their business in the garden.
This is somewhat horrible.
And yes, they do get fined, if caught, but they just carry on :( ..
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Yes, as I understood, everyone in here only does it for short periods of time. But sadly I know a lot of people in my country (some of them even breeders, not cockers though) that always keep their dogs in crates. They are only let out a couple of times a day to do their business in the garden.
This is somewhat horrible.
And yes, they do get fined, if caught, but they just carry on :( ..
:( Thats a shame Katina, some people are horrid!
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If memory serves correct, we have had a few people who have seemed to use crates in ways for which they weren't designed i.e. to coop up their dogs for extended periods whilst they've been out of the house, at work all day for example. It does happen unfortunately - sometimes, because people think misguidedly that they're acting in their dogs best interests. So I can understand why some people may be against crates, for the way in which they "can be, and sometimes are" abused.
That said, to summarise this interesting thread so far, we can all agree that crates used in their proper context can be a valuable aid to rearing a happy, well-adjusted and well-trained dog - and of course equally, that you don't have to use a crate to bring up a well-trained happy dog (I, for example did not, though I have nothing against them n the slightest). So where's the argument? :lol:
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I had a lot of trouble convincing hubby that crating was the way to go with Alfie.
When Gunnar was a pup we lived in a flat so he followed us room to room no problems. Also when we had to go out and leave him on his own it was easy to shut the doors and just leave him the run of the hall where he couldnt get in trouble.Now we have a house and the kitchen, hall and stairs are open plan and to leave him unattended and loose would be dangerous. My main concern was that he might fall off the stairs and break his legs or back. So to be able to pop him in his crate when I need to be away from him for short periods (housework still has to be done) is one worry less. I finally managed to get my hubby to understand by getting him to remember that his children were always popped into the play pen or were strapped in a chair as toddlers for their safety.
Hubby still has concerns (because he still thinks crates are cruel) but he can see the safety reasoning and once he sees that I dont intend on shutting Alfie up for hours at a time, Im sure he will be more at ease with it.
Suki
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If memory serves correct, we have had a few people who have seemed to use crates in ways for which they weren't designed i.e. to coop up their dogs for extended periods whilst they've been out of the house, at work all day for example. So where's the argument? :lol:
:) Mike, I was talking about the regular folk on the forum :wink: I think most people with an ounce of common sence and decency know that its wrong to crate a puppy or adult dog for long periods of time :!:
As for an argument :roll: no argument here, only stating my own opinion and putting my views forward :wink: and also defending my decision to crate, as others have defended their decision not to crate :D
Just to outline my thoughts again I agree with the use of crates, as long as they are used in a safe and responsible manner! If we are talking about overuse, like the example Katina gave then, of course, I strongly disagree with that :x
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I have 2 cockers and the first time round I didn't have a crate as like many other people thought it was a cruel idea :roll: However, when Neo was very small we did build a pen which he was restricted to when he had to be left alone (not much different to a crate but bigger), and then as he grew bigger we moved him to the kitchen with a baby gate across so he has more room but still hasn't got free run of the house. We decided early on that he would only be allowed the freedom of the house when we were there to supervise :wink:
Since owning Neo I have read more and learnt more about crates and training techniques, so when Jovi joined the family at Easter we'd already bought a crate. The first night I have to admit to getting up and opening the door to the crate, and in the morning I found Neo in the crate and Jovi stretched out in the basket!! :lol: :lol:
Jovi now sleeps in his crate every night, and Neo sleeps next to it in his basket, it gives him a bit of peace from the pup. At bedtime both my boys go to their beds very happily, and sometimes if I forget to shut the baby gate Neo wanders around the house without causing any damage 8) . It is not very often that Jovi's crate door is shut during the day.. only if I'm unloading the shopping, cooking and he's trying to climb in the cupboards/oven :D
I think it's a very useful tool that needs to be used wisely. Also if you are going to crate then remember to follow the advice on getting a puppy used to it and making it a fun place. Jovi will curl up in the crate quite happily even though there are 2 baskets and he can choose which one he sleeps in during the day.
As a house-training tool it is very helpful, I don't remember how long it took Neo before he went through the night without a puddle, but Jovi's been clean through the night from almost day one (with the usual getting up). I do have problems with puddles if the back door is shut and he needs to go, so the next training is getting him to ask to go out!!! :)