Need to find out more

[charliesdad]

I previously had a Welsh Springer, a lovely girl who lived to be 14, I've recently taken on 2 show cockers, 6 month and 10 month olds, and I don't see much difference between the breeds in terms of demands etc.  I would say the springer did need more exercise but she was a much larger dog.  The 2 cockers have 3 walks a day, prob about 8 ish miles in total but I don't think the distance is that key as on a stroll through the woods they usually cover 20 times the distance I do.  I would say though that if you expect them to be less demanding (in a good way) I find they're not.  They are great companions and very loving.

[Potter]

Oh that's interesting about your Welsh Springer - thank you.  I had a Field Spaniel (girl 18 months) visit today and she was as good as gold.  After saying hello to everyone, she just plonked down and waited until her owner was ready to go.  People were in and out all the time, but she was very steady and calm.  That spurred me on!

It has been enlightening:  I must have spoken to about half a dozen or more different breeders over the past 48 hours.  What a variety.  I know it's virtually impossible to tell over the phone, but you do get a "feel" whether you would be comfortable or not purchasing from the person at the end of the line.  Two were absolutely out and out for the money - one actually said within the first five minutes, "how much are you expecting to pay?" and then went on to say that all her pups were sold but her brother had "another load" and promptly gave me his number.  I didn't bother to phone. 

Conversely, I spoke to two lovely ladies who told me all about the bloodline, the history and what they intended to do with their dogs for the future.  What a difference!  Not once was I made to feel obliged or pressed into any kind of commitment.

So, the result of my search is this:  I have registered an interest in two litters and have agreed a first viewing without any obligation towards the middle of June.  However, I am leaning more towards one of the two litters and wonder if I should telephone the other and cancel?  I don't want to waste their time and possibly prevent someone else from purchasing the pup. 

Any thoughts on this?

Potter - worn out from thinking about cocker puppies!!!

[Nicola]

Oh that's interesting about your Welsh Springer - thank you.  I had a Field Spaniel (girl 18 months) visit today and she was as good as gold.  After saying hello to everyone, she just plonked down and waited until her owner was ready to go.  People were in and out all the time, but she was very steady and calm.  That spurred me on!

Field Spaniels are wonderful dogs, I would LOVE one but they are very different to cockers. They are known for their calm, laid back, slightly 'ploddy' natures which cockers aren't!! 

[Potter]

I didn't realise that about Field Spaniels - I assumed that, being a working dog, it would be very busy.  How interesting.  Thank you.  It's quite an insight with all these different spaniels.  Having had a springer I thought I knew all there was to know about spaniels - clearly I was completely wrong on that one.

Are there any other types that are thought of as "ploddy"?  I love that description!

Many thanks.

Potter

[Nicola]

I didn't realise that about Field Spaniels - I assumed that, being a working dog, it would be very busy.  How interesting.  Thank you.  It's quite an insight with all these different spaniels.  Having had a springer I thought I knew all there was to know about spaniels - clearly I was completely wrong on that one.

Are there any other types that are thought of as "ploddy"?  I love that description!

Many thanks.

Potter

Sussex and Clumber Spaniels aren't famed for being the most 'buzzy' dogs either    Very few Field Spaniels are worked nowadays, they are a rare breed and are mainly used for showing rather than working. Most people prefer to use working springers or working cockers for actual field work as they are faster, 'keener' dogs. Other breeds used for working are Brittany Spaniels, Irish Water Spaniels and to a lesser extent Welsh Springers. There are also breeds such as Picardy Blue Spaniels or French Spaniels which are popular working dogs in France.

[Potter]

Thank you very much for that - yes, I had looked at Sussex Spaniels and also Clumber Spaniels, but my heart keeps coming back to Cockers.

What do you think of this?  I've had a response from a breeder (from the Kennel Club list) who has one little girl left in the litter.  A chocolate, tri colour with KC registration, docked tail and dew claws done.  Ready to collect now - and I think older than 8 weeks, but not sure how much older as I didn't get a response to that vital question.

 I've no understanding whether chocolate cockers are any "madder" than the other parti coloured ones, but I have heard that chocolate labradors are far more bonkers than black and yellows, and harder to train.  And I wondered if that sweeping generalisation could be said of cockers?  (Sorry if I'm upsetting anyone owning a chocolate cocker - complete ignorance on my part, is my only excuse).  Also, is it a "warning" that this little girl happens to be the last of the litter to go?  I know someone has to be the last to go, but it was just a thought?  It also happens to be one of the most expensive quoted to me as well, at over £600 - but again, this might be ignorance on my part.

I'm sorry to ramble on, but my whole life is consumed with Cockers at present and talking to committed owners like yourselves is just a revelation for me!  I am very grateful for all the words of wisdom.  Can't wait to be able to actual become an owner and show my own photos.

Best wishes, Potter

[Jane S]

You can't really generalise about colours in Cockers - temperament depends on so many things including genetics, how much socialising the breeder has done and ultimately how the new owner socialises and trains their pups. All Cockers are really individuals - some will be "madder" than others but colour doesn't really determine this

You're right that there will always be a "last" puppy to go although most reputable breeders tend to have a long line of people waiting for bitches so it is surprising that this breeder still has one for sale after the 8 week stage. Have you asked whether the parents have been Optigen tested for PRA and also DNA tested for FN? I'd also want to know how much socialising an older pup has had. If the breeder has a lot of dogs and raises litters outside, then the pup may not be so well socialised as one that's come from a breeder who can devote more time and attention to their puppies.

[Potter]

Hi Jane

Thanks you. 

Armed with my list of questions when contacting breeders, I have asked them all whether puppies are PRA and FN tested.  None so far have FN tested, but the majority have PRA.  (I have no idea what I'm talking about when I ask this, but this forum suggested I ask, so I do!)

Good to know about colours - very helpful.  Interesting too about puppies being kept indoors or out - that has arisen during conversations too.

Many thanks indeed!

Potter

[Jane S]

Armed with my list of questions when contacting breeders, I have asked them all whether puppies are PRA and FN tested.  None so far have FN tested, but the majority have PRA.  (I have no idea what I'm talking about when I ask this, but this forum suggested I ask, so I do!)

Just to confuse you further, there are actually 2 tests for PRA and one (the clinical eye test) only determines whether the parents have PRA at the moment in time they were tested. The gene test (usually called the Optigen test) actually tells the breeder whether their dog is a carrier of the disease which a clinical eye test cannot do. This test is much more useful as most cases of PRA are produced by parents who are carriers of the disease but don't have it themselves. Make sure you're asking about the Optigen test not just the normal eye test as that generally sorts out those breeders who really care and have kept up to date with developments in gene testing

[Potter]

Dear Jane

Goodness me - confusing is right.  But I will certainly ask those questions too.

However, I have had another conversation with the breeder today - she is an accredited breeder and was recommended to me by word of mouth of another breeder, who was unable to help as all her litter had been sold.  The accredited breeder has kindly sent photos and details of bloodlines, etc., and has been very keen to help.  She has also sent me letters from owners to whom she has sold last year.  So, I am beginning to gain confidence now.  The breeder is happy for us to go and view the puppies any time, but would prefer to wait until 4 weeks if possible, which is fine with us.  She is mainly concerned that being so young we might transfer some bugs to them.  Again, I thought this another "good sign".

My son (aged 20 and home from uni for the summer) and I have also been to a pet store (Pets At Home) and had a good look for all the things we will need.  I came out clutching 3 books: one entirely about Cocker Spaniels, one about Puppy Training and an RSPCA book on General Dog and Puppy Welfare and Grooming.  Lots of bedtime reading!  We decided to leave other purchases until we have viewed thel litter and listened to the views of the breeder regarding food, baskets/crates, etc.

What are your views on crates?  My husband thinks they "look cruel and something you would put a bird in", but I have to say, I disagree with him.  I thought they might be helpful at night time to stop wandering and chewing.  But of course, I haven't read all the books yet - I could be wrong on that one!

Once again, many thanks for all your help.  Can't wait until I am able to help other new members.

Best wishes

Potter

[Stacey]

Well done Potter for all you hard work - it will pay off when you have a cocker baby at home!

As for crates i have them for both of mine and they love them! Both of them only took a couple of weeks to be completely house trained over night (they go in at 10pm and wake me up at 6am for the loo). They are only shut in them at bed time - the rest of the time they use them as beds and wander in and out as they please  . It's nice to know that when they are in their crates that they are safe and not eating my furniture (Tia loves to chew  ).

One tip is to get a clip on water bowl - both Archie and Tia tip them over during the night and soak themselves, their bedding etc.

[Joules]

Well done Potter for all you hard work - it will pay off when you have a cocker baby at home!

As for crates i have them for both of mine and they love them! Both of them only took a couple of weeks to be completely house trained over night (they go in at 10pm and wake me up at 6am for the loo). They are only shut in them at bed time - the rest of the time they use them as beds and wander in and out as they please  . It's nice to know that when they are in their crates that they are safe and not eating my furniture (Tia loves to chew  ).

One tip is to get a clip on water bowl - both Archie and Tia tip them over during the night and soak themselves, their bedding etc.

I second all the above - crates are great!!  Not cruel at all and if you set it up right (lots of threads on crates and how to use them) the pup will see it as a cosy den and safe place to escape to when it needs a break    Also helps to know that when you cannot watch the pup it is safe from any harm and cannot destroy your house 

[catcmartin]

I also second the above.  We crate trained charlie who is a working cocker and 8y/o now.  Once he was by all the puppy stuff and could be trusted not to do damage we stopped using the crate.  However when he was 6 1/2 he went down with IVDD and was paralysed.  After his spinal surgery we had to re-introduce the crate again for 8 weeks post op rest.  I was never so glad that he had been used to the crate so 8 weeks post op crating was never a problem.  Now that he is mobile again the crate still resides as the hubb in the sitting room.  Not ideal but who cares.  Charlie sees this as HIS space where he goes to rest and sleep when he gets tired as he does frequently  as he has never regained all his stamina after what he has been thru.  In fact if I reach into his cage to change the water or fluff up his quilt no matter where he is in the house he is over my shoulder and into his crate with a glare that says'hey what are you doing in my den'         

[CarolineL]

I also second the above.  We crate trained charlie who is a working cocker and 8y/o now.  Once he was by all the puppy stuff and could be trusted not to do damage we stopped using the crate.  However when he was 6 1/2 he went down with IVDD and was paralysed.  After his spinal surgery we had to re-introduce the crate again for 8 weeks post op rest.  I was never so glad that he had been used to the crate so 8 weeks post op crating was never a problem.  Now that he is mobile again the crate still resides as the hubb in the sitting room.  Not ideal but who cares.  Charlie sees this as HIS space where he goes to rest and sleep when he gets tired as he does frequently  as he has never regained all his stamina after what he has been thru.  In fact if I reach into his cage to change the water or fluff up his quilt no matter where he is in the house he is over my shoulder and into his crate with a glare that says'hey what are you doing in my den'         

I agree too!

Hurley was crate trained and it was such a doG send.... it was really good for night time toilet training too as puppy's very rarely mess in their own sleeping space so will wake you up when they need to go.

Hurley also needed an op aged 6 months and although we no longer used the crate at this time, because he had been used to it, when he needed to be confined to the crate for 2 weeks post op there was no trouble at all.

They aren't cruel, although I can understand why they might be perceived as so. When I told my work colleagues that I was using one they all thought it was dreadfully cruel - when they saw how happy and relaxed and safe he was when he was in it they soon changed their minds!

If you have been recommended someone by word of mouth from another breeder that sounds good to me..... KC accreditation isnt necessarily a good thing and I was duped by a puppy farmer/back yard breeder who had KC accreditation and who's details I got of the KC site. Unfortunately the bitch lost the whole litter and it was only then that I found out the breeder wasnt quite as reputable as I'd been led to believe.

It is a minefield out there but with the right questions and advice, as long as you are willing to take it on board, you'll get there in the end!!!   

More bedtime reading is 'The Perfect Puppy' by Gwen Bailey - an excellent book, easy to read and will definitely get you prepared for your pup

Cx

[Potter]

Thank you, one and all.  Crates it is then. 

I thought I'd get one for the boot of the car, and one for the house for bedtime.  With the one for the house, is it just what they call a "play pen"?  I don't know if this has a bottom and you put the bed and water (and newspapers for accidents) on top, or, if it is just a pen with four sides.  It was all boxed up and the picture on the side was not clear.  Assistants weren't the most helpful in the world either, if you know what I mean.  If it is just four sides, will that not topple over when puppy knocks against it?

Have almost read the book on Cocker Spaniels - couldn't put it down last night!  Thank you for the other title - have no doubt I will get that too.  I get a great deal of info from the net, but there's nothing like a good book to pick up and put down at will.  Easy to refer back to, too.

The breeder very kindly sent me photos of mum and litter today, completely unsolicited, which I thought was most kind.  My husband just melted when he saw them!

Back to the reading.

Potter