working/show cockers

[Cazzie]

Girls with workers what do you think of the current breed standard  is it  representative of your breed the working cocker , id like to see working cockers at show and i bet there are enough people who would want to now working cockers are becoming increasingly popular with pet homes .

Thanks for that link, the Labs in there are stunners and no bigger than my dogs fathers  Infact I think my dogs dads could be bigger 

I do not have a clue about the cocker breed standard as ive never looked well enough into it, but you can get a rough idea looking at all the top show dogs roughly what is required 

I know Miss Sweepie is FAR from breed standard and is not a dog I would have chosen if involved in the show cocker world 

This is a super thread 

[anita96]

Link to Cocker Breed Standard :-

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/113

hope it was ok to post that, but it is the breed standard, I have highlighted the areas as a layman I know mocha would struggle to compete in a show ring, but lots of the rest of the stuff looks fine espically the bit about being merry!!!

[Helen]

although Jarv is quite show cocker like he is way off the standard...coupled with the fact I think he would be considered mismarked as although he is solid liver, his allowable white chest flash is liver roan?  Or would he be considered a Liver roan in that instance 

Height is fine 15 1/2 inches to the shoulder, and he's a little light, just under 13 kgs, teefies are very good scissor bite.

looking at it purely from a conformation to breed standard pov and disregarding his tuft and general bad grooming (and I promise we won't be insulted) can the show peeps tell me his faults?  (I know where i think he 'misses' but would love an expert view  )



(perhaps that's not a very good photo to base a judgement on, but I would be really interested, I can try and hunt out a better one, and a profile muzzle shot if that helps)

[Jane S]

I think Jarvis is a "Cockery" Working Cocker By that I mean he doesn't look like any other breed and still has bags of traditional Cocker type. He'd be classed as a solid liver for showing and solids are allowed some white on the chest (with or without ticking). For a show dog, he'd probably need to be a wee bit more compact (ie shorter in the body) and have lower set ears and a more domed skull but I wouldn't describe him as being way off the Standard but then I see the Standard as just painting a picture of the breed in quite broad strokes - it's not a detailed, exact blue print and is open to interpretation eg what one person regards as a neck of "moderate length" isn't the same as another's

Interpretation of the Standard by conformation judges has gradually changed over the years particularly when it comes to coat length and also to things like body proportions - the Standard says a Cocker should measure approximately same from withers to ground as from withers to root of tail but this actually produces a dog which would be considered quite long by some of today's judges. If anyone's been to one of Frank Kane's judging seminars, he usually illustrates this on his "model" Cocker with strategic bits of coloured tape Going off topic a bit there but just using it to show that the Standard is open to interpretation somewhat - it's doesn't mean the same thing to everyone who reads it.

[Spaniel Girl]

As a matter of interest when did the working cocker start to differ in looks from the show type.  My mother had cocker's at the end of the 2nd world war and she is now 84 and didn't know that there were working cocker's, in her day there was only one type of cocker and they looked more like the show type, and were dual purpose. 

[Nicola]

Mine are all too tall, too long in the body and Alfie and Tilly are also too heavy for the standard although they all have good jaws and teeth and good movement etc. They're all fairly different from each other as well, they're all out of different lines, they have common ancestors but have no close relatives in common.

Rodaidh is very young in this photo but you can see how long and gangly he is and how little coat he has, he's got a touch more feathering now but not much although he has put on a lot of muscle now. I think his eye colour would be a fault as it's too light and his ears are very high set, quite short and are triangular in shape.



Alfie is very long and lean, I think it was Spanielcrazy said he looked like a hunting spaniel from an old oil painting in this photo... He's very muscular and athletic looking but he's long backed and not compact at all.  His ears are a more typical 'cocker' shape than Rodaidh's but are still high set.



Would also be interested to get a more experienced view on the pair of them (be kind  ). They're both very different types to Jarvis and also to workers from other Scottish breeding lines as well.

[Helen]

I think Jarvis is a "Cockery" Working Cocker By that I mean he doesn't look like any other breed and still has bags of traditional Cocker type. He'd be classed as a solid liver for showing and solids are allowed some white on the chest (with or without ticking). For a show dog, he'd probably need to be a wee bit more compact (ie shorter in the body) and have lower set ears and a more domed skull but I wouldn't describe him as being way off the Standard but then I see the Standard as just painting a picture of the breed in quite broad strokes - it's not a detailed, exact blue print and is open to interpretation eg what one person regards as a neck of "moderate length" isn't the same as another's

Interpretation of the Standard by conformation judges has gradually changed over the years particularly when it comes to coat length and also to things like body proportions - the Standard says a Cocker should measure approximately same from withers to ground as from withers to root of tail but this actually produces a dog which would be considered quite long by some of today's judges. If anyone's been to one of Frank Kane's judging seminars, he usually illustrates this on his "model" Cocker with strategic bits of coloured tape Going off topic a bit there but just using it to show that the Standard is open to interpretation somewhat - it's doesn't mean the same thing to everyone who reads it.

Thanks Jane, that's really interesting to me!  (and Jarv is suitably flattered  ) 

He is to me very 'cockery'  (and that's the 'type' his breeder likes and breeds).

The diversity within working cockers is getting so great it wouldn't surprise me if there is a further split within the working cocker breed - probably based on size (we could have the Small Working Cocker and the Large working cocker, like Small and Large Munsterlanders  )

Nic, lovely pics of your boys 


 

[emilyjw]

i think Bracken looks quite similar to the 1931 cocker based on her coat.

She is a mixture so is a bit different. Her height is fine and I would say her ears are positioned at the right height for a show cocker but I'm not sure if her head is domed enough. She only weighs 10kg so is a bit light and although she has featherings in the right places I wouldn't descibe her as well feathered.

[anita96]

My goodness I see a rush of workers in shows this summer    note to self 'make sure I take all the bits of forest he has picked up in his coat over the week!! @

[Nicola]

My goodness I see a rush of workers in shows this summer    note to self 'make sure I take all the bits of forest he has picked up in his coat over the week!! @

I can think of so many other ways to make an eejit of myself so I think any showing aspirations I have will have to wait 

[Helen]

   dunno if that was aimed at me 

don't intend to show Jarv, was just interested in how far he was off breed standard 

I've also been thinking - because a lot of working cockers are becoming less cocker, should we split the breed into working cockers, and working spaniels?